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NetEA Steel Legion - proposed update

 Post subject: NetEA Steel Legion - proposed update
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:45 pm 
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STATE OF THE STEEL LEGION:

As many of you will know the EUK and the NetEA Steel Legion lists are very similar. The NetEA Warlord is 25pts cheaper but apart from that the EUK list benefits from a cheaper Artillery Company (600 vs 650), and cheaper upgrades.

The Baneblade is a poor choice, we're testing 2 shots on the main cannon.

The Steel Legion list is well liked and both the NetEA and EUK versions are externally balanced.

An update is probably due.....

OPTIONS:

1) Do nothing to the list, update the Baneblade stat line subject to testing.

2) Adopt the EUK list for total parity as is becoming increasingly common.

3) Hybridise the existing EUK list, the NetEA list, and the Baneblade changes (subject to testing) going with the cheaper costs and stronger stat lines.

4) Start a thorough update testing process including looking at the internal balance between the various artillery units, super heavies, upgrades, adding Chimera as a 100pt upgrade option for Storm Troops etc....

My preferred option is option 3 as an update and starting option 4 as a project (which from experience will be lengthy and potentially divisive!)

PLEASE COMMENT!

I'm off to test a Bansblade Company.....


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Steel Legion - proposed update
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:00 pm 
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Move Hellhounds from Upgrade to Support slot?

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Steel Legion - proposed update
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:20 pm 
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When you say stronger stay lines in option 3 do you mean the baneblade or are there some stat differences between EUK and NetEA?

I would say drop upgrade prices (so basically start with the EUK list but with NetEA warlord) as a starting point and call that a new 'official' revision. Then sort the baneblade, but also start reviewing if some upgrades are still suboptimal. For example allow them to be taken in more flexible/smaller numbers.

So basically v similar to your position I think.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Steel Legion - proposed update
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:28 pm 
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Kyrt, we've the same position!

E&C, there are other lists with the Hellhound formation and the Steel Legion don't really need it.... either way this is an option 4 consideration so I take it that's your preference?


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Steel Legion - proposed update
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:39 pm 
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I guess so. I consider the list pretty balanced but a few units aren't worth taking, might be nice to fix that.

Also, Baneblade main gun MW3+ rather than multiple shots?

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Steel Legion - proposed update
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:31 pm 
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We can test Hellhounds at 75pts first, I'd rather avoid adding new formations to the list, particularly a formation of fast ff tanks with good AP which ignore cover.

There is a Baneblade test thread, I don't like MW on the Baneblade personally as that's what the Stormblade and the Macharius Omega do.


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Steel Legion - proposed update
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:03 pm 
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I'd go for 4, at least for those listed above (sorry, till rereading thats what i thought you were planning anyway).

The artillery particularly seem unbalanced when manticores firing 4BP/2BP alternating turns is factored in. A points drop on the basilisks/bombards would be nice. It seems a shame that *the* artillery faction seems to rarely have more than a couple of batteries on the board.

Storm troopers are another iconic unit which rarely sees use. My fix would be to reduce the firepower of the valks rockets, thereby dropping their cost. But as that seems unlikely, the option for APCs would be great, esp with some good taurox proxies now available. Rules as per chimera would be fine. The option of a fast moving assault unit would give a viable alternative to the ubiquitous warhounds.


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Steel Legion - proposed update
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:26 pm 
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I like Storm Troopers, use them commonly.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Steel Legion - proposed update
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:27 pm 
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adding chimeras as an option for Storm troopers is fine IMHO. Not sure a chimera by another name Taurox unit being added is required... However, don't touch my valks!! :tut ;) I'm with Ben that I like storm troopers and use them as well. I'd to not like to see a separate hellhound and/or Griffon formation for a couple of reasons. 1. bloat, 2. they fit better in a more elite Cadians force (reflective of their better training) than SL, 3. theme, 4. I'd rather us concentrate on perhaps finishing basically done lists that need some final testing rather than screwing with a core list.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Steel Legion - proposed update
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:55 pm 
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Looking at the UK championship stats, the IG does seem to be losing out more to the newer lists.
Given that many newer lists seem to have suffered from 'power creep' which people are unable (or unwilling) to address, and that we have already looked at ways of boosting the Marines and Orks, the inevitable answer is to find acceptable ways of providing a slight boost to the IG.

I agree that this should start with, but not necessarily be limited to, option #3.


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Steel Legion - proposed update
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:07 pm 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
I like Storm Troopers, use them commonly.


Sure, but would you also like to take them in APCs?

I like the valks as they are, but my issue is that when upgrading the stormtroopers the unit becomes all about the Valkyrie rockets because they are can be so devastating. The valk stats aren't going to change, but i would just like to see the actual storm troopers shine.

Ive tried them on foot, which can be quite fun, but they are really too expensive to be a scout screen, and too slow to do much assaulting.



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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Steel Legion - proposed update
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:45 pm 
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If given the choice between Valkyries @ 150pts and Chimeras @ 100pts, I'd probably take Valkyries.

If the Chimeras were even cheaper, I might consider it, but I really do like some of the assets that Valks bring - starting the game overwatch that prevents opponents from rounding a corner of terrain to position for an attack elsewhere into my army, for example, or faster speed/skimmer status and its maneuverability/engagement benefits.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Steel Legion - proposed update
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:12 pm 
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Personally I'd love to be able to run my Storm Troopers in Chimeras. I find the Valkyries a bit over-gunned (and therefore too expensive) just to give them a bit of speed. The firepower of the Valkyries is nice but they often feel tethered to the Storm Troopers rather than complimenting them.

I guess one problem could be that they maybe then start treading on the toes of the 400pt Mechanized Infantry Company


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Steel Legion - proposed update
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:37 pm 
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yeah they do get a wee bit of butting their ass into the mech coy however they also eat support slots, not unlock

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Steel Legion - proposed update
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:28 pm 
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I know you said the Valks won't change, but honestly they really should be looked at.

A squadron of 4 Valks putting out 8 BP with Disrupt is a serious amount of firepower. Even if it's single shot, it will cripple/break many formations and do serious damage even to AVs through weight of fire. The AP/AT value is stronger than a normal rocket launcher at that BP value, *and* rolls more dice due to multiple templates. It seems out of line with the idea of a classic helicopter rocket pod, where you're ripple firing unguided rockets. Yes, it's the aerial equivalent of artillery, but should 4 Valks put out the firepower of 8 Basilisks? (Ok, so shorter effective range and they won't be sustaining, but Disrupt hurts).

My issues with this go beyond the Steel Legion list too. Any airborne list that tries to run a larger formation of Valkyries quickly gets into ludicrous territory. In my Catachan Deathworld Veteran list, a company of veterans plus upgrades in 6 Valks can emerge from cover, move 35cm to get in range, then put out 12 BP with Disrupt, which will automatically break just about any formation. It seems the Valks were tested at 4 strong with no consideration for how silly they could get in larger formations.

It's something worth looking at - I would be happier with 1BP per Valk and Disrupt, Single Shot, or a weaker multi shot weapon that didn't use BP at all and had stats more in line with a regular missile launcher (say 2x AP5/AT6, Disrupt). The price could obviously come down to compensate.

Then the Valks would be more of a transport vehicle than a crazy alpha strike vehicle that happens to hold infantry. As flyingthruwater said, they pay for that firepower, and end up being bogged down by the infantry they carry rather than supporting them.


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