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Cadian Shock Troops v1.5

 Post subject: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:59 pm 
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Welcome to the Cadian Shock Troops army list.

This list focus on Infantry and War Engines. It has limited speed options and a high cost on some of it's core units but it usually field Kasrkin in greater numbers then other Imperial Guards and they have some of the normal supporting units in their own formations.

This list is in Development status

Attachment:
CADIAN SHOCK TROOPS ARMY LIST v1.56.pdf [426.23 KiB]
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Changelog:

v 1.56
Sentinels removed and Cadian sentinels +25 points to counter spam
Psykers CC set to 6+ (before it was 4+) to represent them better
Chimeras added to Airborn Kasrkin and the Mechanized Platoon was removed
Leviathan changed to be in line with the new Squat profile. (range on doomsday reduced to 90 cm but it gains TRA.


v 1.55
Vultures added
Stormlords cost lowered
Ordinatus main weapon changed



Opinions, suggestions and comments most welcome :)

/Uven


Last edited by uvenlord on Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:49 pm 
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What's specifically new at this point? [lazy] :D

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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:37 pm 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
What's specifically new at this point? [lazy] :D
Compared to the 1.4 its mostly points and formatting. Changed some wordings and stats so they are the same as in the TP, also made some changes to the Colossus stats to make it easier and worth taking.


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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 1:54 am 
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Nevermind my original post.

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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:44 am 
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You got some Times New Roman in the Whiteshields entry on page 1! And there’s a typo in Volcano Cannon on page 4 (Shadowsword entry).

The bigger issue is the Plasma Destructors that the Ordinatus Cadia uses. Same name as the AMTL weapon, but different number of shots. (In the AMTL list it’s 5x MW2+ rather than 4x.) It’s a topic of much discussion, and probably not settled yet. You might be better off just coming up with a new name. Personally I’m opposed to any plasma weapons having more than 60cm range, but I'm kind of alone in that. 8 shots total is probably fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 1:54 pm 
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carlisimo109 wrote:
You got some Times New Roman in the Whiteshields entry on page 1! And there’s a typo in Volcano Cannon on page 4 (Shadowsword entry).

The bigger issue is the Plasma Destructors that the Ordinatus Cadia uses. Same name as the AMTL weapon, but different number of shots. (In the AMTL list it’s 5x MW2+ rather than 4x.) It’s a topic of much discussion, and probably not settled yet. You might be better off just coming up with a new name. Personally I’m opposed to any plasma weapons having more than 60cm range, but I'm kind of alone in that. 8 shots total is probably fine.
Thanks for finding typos, will fix them in the next release.

On the Plasma Destructor I knew the AMTL one was up for debate and I'm not sure it will stay as all other Ordinatus have a specially made weapon. So my solution was to leave it as it is for the time being. Any suggestions?


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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:48 pm 
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rename for now, readdress/review when/if the AMTL one is settled.

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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:24 pm 
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So I have come up with some alternatives to the Plasma Destructor that I would like you to look at.

It's all math-hammer but I have compared the current weapon with the Ordinatus Mojoris "Nova Cannon" and come up with the idea that the Ordinatus Cadia should fill the role as a fast shooter. I.e it will be good against hordes but not as good against Warengines. (It didn't feel right to drop MW from a ordinatus weapon so it's still really good against everything :) )
There are three different ideas, the "Behemoth" would come with a price reduction the others would not.
Also there is always the idea of arming this one with the Nova Cannon and move on :)

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What do you think?


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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:41 pm 
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In deep cogitation with other players right now about this and the list in general. Will have more input shortly, just be aware our sweet Canadians are not forgotten about. Also-PLAYTESTS to come! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:06 am 
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Nyah, I kinda like it how it is now.

Some of the options seem overcosted and the lack of warhounds really robs the list of some of the usual synergies but overall I think it works.


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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:47 pm 
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Beefcake4000 wrote:
Nyah, I kinda like it how it is now.

Some of the options seem overcosted and the lack of warhounds really robs the list of some of the usual synergies but overall I think it works.
OK, good to hear your opinion. My opponents haven't protested that loud so perhaps it can stay as it is... no need to change a thing that works :)

Lack of Warhounds is really hurting mobility but it is also one of the things that makes this list "special".
Can you be a little more specific on what units that feels overcosted? Right now most stuff feels alright to me, it's just the Stormlord that seems pricy, especially when I play against Death korps with Gorgons for less then half the price...


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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:12 am 
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Off the top of my head there are a couple of things that could be considered:

Whiteshields - IMO Should be cheaper again. At best they activate 1/3 of the time, with a single blast maker it's 50% and no obvious way to improve this (compared to orc bonus activation depending on action for example). I don't know what their fluff is but maybe they deserve a bonus activation on a certain action, e,g, 2+ if going on overwatch etc.

Haven't used stormlords so I can't speak to them.

I think the most overpriced thing is the Ordinatus Cadia. I think it's ordinary in every respect. Consider.

Felxibility wise - It replaces the warhounds which are an essential synergy component in pretty much every gaurd list and there isn't really a good replacement in Cadians. I can live with that.

Stats wise - 2 Warhounds costs 500pts, Ordinatus costs 550. Consider:

2 Warhounds has the same voidshields and armour but 2 more pts of DC and won't be destroyed a single critical hit. They would also regenerate 2 of those voidshields in the end phase rather than 1.

They have the same amount of plasma destructor shots though the warhounds are far more likely to use them in turn 1 (important due to recharge) becasue the Ordinatus is so stupidly slow which doesn't combine well with such bad range.

The Vulcan heavy bolters would also pump out 8 shots rather than 4 and would be more effective on either AV or AP with better range.

So basically the 500pt 2 warhound unit is better in literally every respect (speed, damage, survivability) than the 550pt ordinatus. In fact the only thing its better at is "inspiring" your men on the off chance you ever engage with a movement 10 vehicle...

Overall I don't think it hurts the list and it is probably themey etc but if you were building a competitive list it's a bad choice.

IMO it could be the same points a s single warhound and basically you would be trading the speed/flexability of a warhound for the extra resilience and shooting of the ordinatus. At its current points it needs either better range on the guns or a speed boost to make more able to use those guns and have time to recharge.


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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 6:58 am 
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The Warhound is one of the most all round and cost effective units in the game so I do not mind if the Ordinatus is a little bit worse. That said you might want to read the list again, Warhounds has a plasma blastgun and the ordinatus has a plasma destructor. So the ordinatus has 8 shots at 75 cm while the two warhounds has 4 shots at 45 cm (+the mega bolters)

The Whiteshields are supposed to be "untrained" personell. You might be right about 200 points being a bit high but as a defensive unit it is ok i guess. You get 13 units and when you fail you still get to take the Hold action... I like the simple solution with the 3+ initiative to represent them being new so if there would be any change there will be a drop to 175 points but right now I really do not see the need.
Try and garrison them and they can start on overwatch :)


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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:43 am 
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Yeah I'm a muppet and didn't read that properly... Still won't use one because I like the flexability of the Cadian list rather than the hitty big unit options like the Ordinatus but I'll concede that it's points are far more logical with the actual gun than the one I've been playing with....

Wooops!


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 Post subject: Re: Cadian Shock Troops v1.5
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 9:10 pm 
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So after some thinking and playing I will probably do the following tweaks.
1. Use the "Behemoth Blaster" statline for the ordinatus.
2. Add Vultures due to popular demand and the fact that I have bought some :) It also fits the elite theme of the Cadians (but not the infantry focus...)
3. Lower the cost of Stormlords to 175 points. Mainly because of me playing against Gorgons...

Thoughts?

Will try and actually post a battlereport with the changes above during the next weeks :)


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