A week late but i managed to try out the 2BP suggestion last night.

I took a Co of 3 against NetEA spacewolves, with the rest of the army looking like this :

Steel Legion 3000 POINTS - 9 activations
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[BTS] SUPER-HEAVY TANK COMPANY [600] 3 Baneblade, Hydra, Hydra *

REGIMENTAL HQ [550] Supreme Commander, 12 Infantry, 7 Chimera, Hydra

MECHANISED INFANTRY COMPANY [400] Commander, 12 Infantry, 7 Chimera

ROUGH RIDER PLATOON [150] 6 Rough Riders

ARTILLERY BATTERY [250] 3 Manticores

ARTILLERY BATTERY [250] 3 Manticores

THUNDERBOLT FIGHTERS [150] 2 Thunderbolts

WARHOUND TITAN [275]

WARHOUND TITAN [275]

(* Looks like i made an error here - seems you can only take 1 Hydra (?) )

So as i expected, the suggestion to try it this way (as opposed to the 2x shots) didn't meet with much enthusiasm from my opponent, but i talked him into it. Certainly the formation commanded some respect at last and was given a wide berth for much of the game - as scary as 3x shadowswords... maybe.

However as expected the unit wasn't devastating as I think he and everyone who hears 6BP had feared. A combination of the avoidance tactics from my opponent and the slow speed meant it spent much of the game moving to fire, meaning i was hitting on 5s or 6s. Turn one they clipped a couple of fenrisian wolves and turn two it hit a pred formation, thunderhawk and the remnants of a great Co causing no casualties (though that was unlucky dice mainly.) Even turn two firing on sustain onto a Great Co and broken blood claws (in woods) it only killed two grey hunters and a blood claw (which was the result of BMs.)

However this was the slightly unexpected strength. Laying down 2 templates and an extra BM meant that i could often reliably prep/suppress one and often 2 formations (even SMs!) This certainly gives the Baneblade an interesting "support" function which fits with the fluff - rolling along with the grunts dishing out lots of explosions all over the place felt very imperial guard.

Combined with the manticores there were a lot of templates flying around and this was certainly encouragement to my opponent to spread out and loose support opportunities. Had my mech Co.s not suffered from air assault massacres it could have been very useful for setting up assaults.

On the other hand, the barrage rules resulted in several situations where template placement rules meant i was forced to "LOS stretch" (ie. into cover) and fire round corners. The free hand to place the second template clipping other formations (with the extra 2BM each time) certainly irked my opponent and felt very odd for a "direct" barrage. [ I think i played this right - certainly this was how my opponent at the last tourney i played at was using his feral Titans.]

So in the round. I liked it much more than i thought i would. Guard don't exactly suffer from a lack of barrage options but the rolling barrage felt different. In fact, if the baneblade went with the 2 shots it would be great to have the option to take gryphon formations in a similar role - following the infantry laying down fire. It's a shame that as an upgrade they just cripple your activations.

But i digress. I still think the 2 shots would gain more acceptance from opponents but i don't think 6BMs was OP. I had to keep reminding myself and my opponent - would you rather face 3 shadow swords... With the light casualties I don't think my opponent will be as scared as them again, so it'll be interesting if they feel as tough next time. I'm not sure if anyone would bother with a single, but at least having one viable way of fielding them is an improvement.

I think I would prefer 6bp vs most armies, but for marines shadowswords strike fear into their expensive little hearts...

The issue I'd have with that is that the formation just doesn't do very much as is. Making it tougher or harder to deal with just leads to more of the experience seen by the Tau example earlier. Ignore them.

Rug, will you be around this Sunday for a game? I want to give the Baneblade singletons with current stats a try.

Hey, if we are on left field suggestions, Wookie and I discussed giving them Infiltrate after the game !

Hear me out... :-)

Obviously not a sneaky infiltrator but we thought the extra engage range would represent a kind of tank shock tactic allowing them to be much scarier as a vanguard assault unit. It's the slow move which really is the issue with the current load out...

Let's get craz, let's get nuts!

Allow them to Garrison despite being WEs

Or

To represent the stability and complex targeting systems. They can double but do not suffer the -1 to hit.

Good to see some ideas being tested

I'd rather sort the main gun and am not keen on making the Baneblade tougher or fearless.

I think they're tough enough as they are, and almost always have a fearless commissar tank anyway

they're meant to be revered throughout the imperium and feared by its enemies, as it is currently, I breathe a sigh of relief if my opponent plonks down baneblades.....

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So, thoughts on the 'no -1 to hit on a double' to avoid the pillbox effect? Means it could keep up with a Mech Inf. Co. in a rolling armoured assault...though does make it faster than the Leman Russ Co.

Thinking about it that does make it rather powerful...

Things like infiltrate, walker and scout all deliver some of those objectives without the special rules.

As a slow vehicle the better the weapons get the more pillbox it becomes. You need something to make it worth moving instead of firing. Currently you move to get in range, then go static and sustain or assault.

Final option is just to make them cheaper. They are less substandard if they cost less.

Cheaper doesn't change usage as much as the specials do. It simply makes them appear more often.

Meaning that a cheaper Baneblade will tend to simply see more "pillboxes" being used, not that they'll suddenly become break through tanks. If changing how they're used is the victory condition I'd not spend as much time on price then (they may or may not need a price change-that's an independent discussion). Personally I've got no issue with them being a mobile bunker. As I've stated earlier, often the best use of a SHT is that it shapes the flow of the battle by locking down areas of the table even if it's not super killy on enemy units.

When I ported the EA lists over to Exodus Wars rule set (aka Epic Armageddon v2.0) I suddenly had access to a wider range of specials and capabilities than found in EA. One of them was the totem rule that basically provided a bonus to rally for nearby formations. Conceptually and fluff wise, Baneblades are the unit that makes fleeing guard stand and fight. After all, it's a tank the size of a house. I saw solved a huge amount if "why take this" and "what does it do?" by applying that ability to the unit to great effect in play tests. Basically that gave a reason for the tank to be taken AND be used in a manner that matched the fluff: I want to advance that tank as part of a wider front as the supporting units / screening forces will keep it together longer and not be as likely to break.

Perhaps something similar could somehow through some combination of abilities or notes be worked out?

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Reminds me of the old idea in the AM stuff to give WEs inspiring if they were in an assault with friendly infantry - the idea being they inspired the infantry to greater lengths. The rally idea makes them inspirational pillboxes?

A breakthrough tank will either have the firepower to smash the opposition line, or the assault ability to crash through the line. Currently it is 9 FF attacks with inspiring and very hard to damage in return, so might well get outnumbering - is that enough? Of course you then are still left with the speed being the limiting factor.

If it is an assault tank inflitrator is a somewhat radical yet logical change. If it is supposed to be covered in guns and work on raw dice rolling, well not so much.