Changing to 2x x does has the oddity of being the only gun to do this I think? Most other weapons state rapid firing, or have multiple barrels etc. Tis just something that can immerse you less in the game? And they should be a bit worse than a russ formation, because they cost less for a start... Being WE is a boost for engagements, supression and survivability (remember hits are distributed up to DC, then you move onto the next tank, you don't apply hits after saves to the formation, so the tanks get damaged together and manoeuvre can further improve this), would you say this is worse/equal/better than the russ formation size and speed advantages?

A russ formation does 30cm 20 AP5+, 45cm 10 AT5+, 75cm 10AP4+/9AT4+&1AT2+
So that is given a mixed or LV target
75cm -2 - 2 hits, -1 - 3 4/6 hits, 0 - 5 2/6 hits, +1 - 6 5/6 hits
45cm -2 - 2 5/6 hits, -1 - 5 2/6 hits, 0 - 8 4/6 hits, +1 - 11 5/6 hits
30cm -2 - 4 3/6 hits, -1 - 8 4/6 hits, 0 - 15 2/6 hits +1 - 21 5/6 hits
A baneblade formation 30cm 9 AP4+, 3IC AP3+/AT4+, 45cm 6 AT5+, 3 AP5+/AT6+, 75cm 3 AP3+/AT3+
So that is given a mixed or LV target
75cm -2 - 1 hits, -1 - 1 3/6 hits, 0 - 2 hits, +1 - 2 3/6 hits
45cm -2 - 1 4.5/6 hits, -1 - 3 hits, 0 - 5 hits, +1 - 7 hits
30cm -2 - 4 4.5/6 hits, -1 - 8 hits, 0 - 11 3/6 hits +1 - 15 3/6 hits

Broadly a pristine baneblade formation has half the firepower at range, same close up when doubling and while a russ company could unload on sustain a baneblade formation can assault, then all the WE vs AV factors (suppression and kills can make a big difference).

Given the other factors and price difference firepower comparable?

(Course what we really need is to break the weapon/stats link in Epic then you can put whatever represents the unit properly down )

(Singles are a different beast, I mean if you can afford 75 points more why not get a Warhound...)

Sounds like an odd concern? The single Turbo Laser barrel on top of a Thunderhawk Inderdictior from the Scions of Iron list has two shots from one barrel for one.

The Baneblade definitely needs a boost. In lists where the wider range of IG Superheavies are available why would anyone in their right mind take a Baneblade over a Stormblade or Stormsword? A Stormsword has a 45cm 3BP disrupt, ignore cover main gun, backed up by Heavy Flamers, FF4+ and a fair amount of other guns.

I'd like to see the Baneblade's main gun go to 2 x AP3+/AT3+. 2BP barrage would be even better an option IMO.

Alternatively the cost of a Baneblade could be dropped to 175 perhaps? I think it's better to improve the gun and keep them all the same though.

Why not just increase its FF to 3+? It's what it does.

FF3+ is the speciality of the Stormhammer (see Minervan list), if the Baneblade had FF3+ too it would be superior to the Stormhammer and have stolen it's role.

Sorry yes - slightly cheaper and slightly inferior to a russ Co - basically because they are slloooowwwwww... :-)

The speed is their critical problem. They have a whole host of guns but rarely ever get to fire them all at a target and when they do it's usually after doubling.

As a Blitz Guard they can work fine as the enemy wants to come to them but it's an expensive formation to have sitting at the back doing very little beyond plinking the odd Bane Cannon shot at something far away. And I'm not sure that 2x Infantry Co. in some cover wouldn't do the job of guarding the Blitz better

Doubling up, and mowing in later turns work for Baneblades, against other IG or shooty armies. Also if your opponent has engage heavy army (like tyranids or orks) you won't even need to double that much to gain opportunity to bring up the full strenght of the Baneblade maximizing all of it's AP and AT firepower plus 4+ FF war engine style. (insert drops, teleports, air assaults or anything here that appears close by.)

Simply try it out with the main gun 2x AP4+/AT3+ and see what happens. For me it was okay, but I guess the more of us test it, the picture will be more clear. It's a test thread afterall.

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Note tis rare you get to sustain under 30cm being strat 2. If a company is a worthwhile engagement target a formation would want to get under 30cm after the BB's have activated, failing that the bb's are going to be advancing/maybe doubling up.

And tis questionable wether or not you would sustain instead of assault at 30cm, as they are pretty good at assaults...

(And on shooting twice, I feel it is more beliveable for lasers, with battlecannon and similar types they all seem to only get 1 shot...)

Maybe for now increase to AP2+/AT2+ then go for all those radical suggestions

It's trying to replicate the wound mechanics of the Baneblade Cannon from 40k.
1 roll to hit. If hit, causes two wounds.

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I don't think the one barrel = one shot argument is really valid. I mean it's not like I envisage my tank co advancing 100s of meters while taking a single perfectly aimed shot - they'd be going 2 to the dozen pumping out as many shells as humanly possible - the dice are just an abstraction.

I try to have a go with the 2BP version next week. But I suspect all I'll get is complaints about my beardyness ! :-)

Sorry don't mean single shot, rather how many targets it engages with its three rounds rapid.

I like what your saying TRC. The BB has a decent amount of firepower, but no real way to use it most of the time. Sure you could advance, but the BB is really slow and probably won't be able to utilize that firepower. You could double but that means negative modifiers, and that doesn't even factor in cover which negates it almost into oblivion. That leaves sustaining, which as you stated already, it would in most cases be better to simply assault. This is fine but in most cases leaves the BB as more of a deterent and one that can likely be avoided.

The 2 shot baneblade cannon idea doesn't affect much, it still retains that role as a defensive tank. It doesn't make its long range firepowe OP, but at least now you can't completely ignore it and this plays better into the BB's role as an all-rounder. Able to contribute in any theatre, but never the best.

Regarding lasers and cannons i have to agree with Blip. The game is abstract. A single game turn can last anywhere from 5 minutes to 30 in "real world" terms. I'm sure the crew can shoot the BB cannon several times within that timeframe. It just would come out as two dice rolls on the tabletop.

Just my two cents.

it's not just what the BB can do but also how it effects the flow of the game. Moving a company of them up in T1, even on a march, means that all the sudden there's a no go area of the board that the enemy has to react to, similar to a battle titan can control a part of the table (but cheaper and less able to be TK'd for the loss of voids). Think of them as a boulder rolled into a stream. The stream now has to move around the shape of the rock.

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Meh, the BB is more usable/obtainable as a model anyway....