Random mind-blurb: Make them 1+ activations. The renowned reliability, stability and resilience of the massive beast then counts for something pretty massive. It always keeps pressing forward, even in the face of enemy fire it keeps on with it's role.

I'm not sure about 1+ initiative, as then we might have to look at Storm Troopers too, but I'm willing to try anything that'll get the 'land-battleships' on a more even footing to it's brothers and sisters.

I always thought that Baneblades are more common in the fluff than the Shadowswords and other specialist varients but I get a niggling feeling whenever I take them that they just lack something

+1 activation is actually pretty interesting - they have got to be as un shakeable as a warhound titan surely?

Though i still think the movement is the issue - they need a greater threat range for assaults - personally i think infiltrate is a viable answer worth further testing.

Infiltrate is interesting as an overrun analog, but I always felt that the Stormhammer was the tank for that particular job with it's metric tons of bolter fire, snub cannons, etc. Baneblades have always been painted as the reliable ones. Unglamourous perhaps, but solid, dependable all-rounders (which of course makes them unfortunately 'meh' at everything). Maybe they really do need to just be accepted as 'less good' than the specialists and priced accordingly?

Does it matter if it steps on the Stormhammer a little bit? Most IG players without large collections play Steel Legion so it isn't a consideration for them. Besides, right now people are arguing that the Stormhammer should keep its FF advantage and be the only one to potentially get Infiltrate - let's just give it a monopoly on one of the two. It doesn't need to be the only IG SH tank that's at all decent in assaults. The Baneblade just needs to be a little less effective in assaults and a little more effecting in shooting.

That said, my preferred idea is Onyx's - some sort of targeting mcguffin so that the battle cannon ignores the doubling penalty. Mars-pattern Baneblades were all about Dark Age of Technology stuff, right? A lot of the other variants are post-Heresy developments, often made because a forge world wasn't capable of building a proper Baneblade.

It's only a small boost since that Baneblade's 'thing' is having multiple weapon systems, and they don't get any help (should they?). It makes more sense than making it faster because a 20cm move is fine, but a 10cm increase when doubling starts looking funny. I think you'd use it to double when you're far away enough that you're only really using the battle cannon, then when you're in range of the other weapons you slow back down, maybe sustain if possible.

The stable platform mechanism on the BB Cannon weapon IS elegant, fits the fluff, AND fits the Apocalypse rules (somewhat). I will admit I am a fan in this thread.

Another idea we tested was stealing the Totem ability from Exodus Wars ruleset (for those not familiar, it's basically a clean room version of EA). Basically gives rally boosts to formations close by. Basically what a BB is to a guard trooper in the fluff.

Neither found much acceptance from the community, sadly.

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Would it be heresy to suggest maybe +25pts to make a Baneblade a Shadowsword?

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I have to say that these ideas are pretty interesting and ellegant, and don't make it game-breaking, together with the Breakthrought Tank idea (Infiltrate or +1 to Advance/Double orders).

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how about ignoring blast markers for activation purposes? This would not make em 1+ formations but stable 2+ formations.

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Was any conclusion or much testing done to sort the Baneblade in the end?

There have been loads of discussion and suggestions but we don't seem to have got anywhere and the unit is obviously underpowered and rarely used. Could maybe do with the AC making a decision on changing it or least choosing a specific change to test? Is that still Rug these days?

It is, but I've no privileges back yet since my account got scrubbed last year.

Conclusions thus far:

A final no to any speed changes - they start to step on the toes of Leman Russ
Survivability changes were very situational and not all that interesting (no crit or fearless)
So it's down to firepower.

I'd rather avoid the "stable platform" route as it's another special rule and in essence it makes them 30cm move...... I'd rather just add +1 AP and AT to all the weapon systems to represent a more stable platform but without incentivising doubling everywhere.

I would be concerned about Guard having access to a 1+ Int core formation, add titans and you could have a whole 1+ Int guard army.....

Thanks, I was thinking firepower would be the obvious fix.

Lots of firepower boosts have been suggested throughout this thread. Could you make a call as AC on your preferred one to test? There's not much testing happening and I think we could do with focusing and testing one preferred choice rather than trying one of a range of possibilities. I'll not intending just to idly debate - if you decide on one I'll test it sometime and report back.

Whoever it is sorts out privileges should really get around to making your new about an admin.

I was giving this some thought a while back. Agree that Rug should make a decision and that should be tested for a while rather than running round in circles.

Must admit, on reflection i had been coming round to Jimmy's thoughts on a rule which effects moral. Haven't had a chance to test anything this year though.


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In fairness to the powers that be I've been returning slowly and not pushed for any admin rights back yet, something I'll be doing over the next week or so.

I'm more of the opinion that boosting the main gun is the way to go rather than inventing a new special rule at this stage of the game, better to keep it simple.

Personally my preferred choice to test would be the 75cm AT3+ OR BP2 proposal, which would make it a more interesting choice and give a reason to take multiples in a company, but I'd like Rug to choose whichever option he thinks best to focus testing, as everything's been discussed for ages already.


Fair enough