There has been some discussion going on in the EEC threads about DKoK in regards to certain aspects of the list making it overpowered. I haven't played either with or against them so have no first hand evidence, but it seems to me that many of the points are valid.

I bought the winter infantry stuff in trouble maker games last crowd funder and have been looking at starting a DKoK force. So they are of interest to me and I would be interested in a continued discussion. Is there a need to nerf the netEA list? Is it over powered? How do you who play with or against it regulary feel?

Some things that were brought up were the effectiveness of Gorgon companies. Especially in numbers. The synergy of gorgons, warhounds and Death Strike Silos. Another matter were scouts with the possibility to take gorgons.

Cheers

Having played RichardL in a couple of tournaments and also played with and against them with Console Avenging Angel, I can definitely say that they are an impressive army.
As is always the case you can review different games and come up with several if’s and but’s to say that the game could have gone the other way. This is born out in the report of my Britcon game against Richard:
The list is beatable but I do feel that you have to take the forces to face off against it and then have a bit of luck. I believed my Saim-Hann were the perfect list, but my luck didn’t hold out.

In my games with the list I have tried out different versions – Taking several Rider formations and playing without Warhounds. Rider heavy didn’t work for me and is not over powered in my opinion.

Playing without Warhounds makes the list that little bit harder to play. You have to either be more aggressive with the Gorgons or play a more defensive game.

I would support dropping the Warhounds and possibly an increase to 150+ for two Gorgons.
If a garrisoning Gorgon is an issue then I’d drop the scout from the grenediers. I haven’t tried the Missile Silo so can’t comment on that.

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The gorgons are a tough unit and could probably use the price bump. Reinforced companies of 3 are unbreakable and nigh need testing at high points (at 3k they're a millstone). Removing scout from grenadiers is backwards. Perhaps they should not be able to make use of gorgons?

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How about a note in the GT army list that grenadiers do not allow Gorgons to garrison. Garrison is a scenario rule, after all, not a core rule.

I've played against the list a few times, and my issue with it isn't so much that it's overpowered but that it seems to have few limitations of what one can include in an army. As I see it, the cool/unique features of the list are the huge companies with gorgons, death rider companies, defenses, artillery, and second-rate superheavies (i.e. Macharius). However, one can then add the deathstrike silo, leman russes and variants, baneblade-chassis superheavies, titans. This seemed like a lot of options to me. The fluff in the imperial armor book does support their inclusion. However, if one is going to give gorgons an extra 5cm of speed for playability's sake, then taking out the high-tech superheavies, silo, and Russ variants could be done for the same reason. Even limiting the Russ upgrade to just demolishers with the death riders would be better.
This list seems to get a free pass when it comes to the "kitchen sink" label. What guard stuff of consequence *can't* it take?

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Unfortunately not.

Anything in particular? Seem alright to me.

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Would you consider a re-think on the critical before testing begins? It seems a bit clunky:
- how do you allocate the D6 hits given there can be a supreme commander in there?
- if the gorgon is destroyed with the same hit that causes the critical, do you kill D6 units then make the remaining ones take cover saves, or vice versa? The first one will kill more units on average

Why not just make it do what usually happens for a crit on a DC3 WE, and destroy it?

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I like most suggestions from that list. except two things

What is it you feel is overpowered with the combination. I thought it was the ability to garrison. Or is there something more to it?

If not then I'd suggest remove scout (like in the epic-UK list) instead or possibly add a note to the upgrade along the lines of "may not garrison with a gorgon".



How? They are just regular IG inf but with a 5+ CC and no shooting attack.

Huh I've been playing them all this time as 6+

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cannon fodder that win through making the enemy run out of ammunition
I've never had any problems with them at 6+ cc. Usually good CC troops avoid the DKoK Infantry deathstars because you're simply going to get swamped. I tend to keep them in tighter blobs so I can counter charge effectively and not get clipped and tend to win through attrition. They're more vulnerable to arty that way but all in all fits the theme. Honestly I never noticed this whole time that I was "missing out".

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