Graf_Spee wrote:
2. the plasma guns on the demolisher are not AP4+/AT4+ and slow firing as the normal stat is? i would stick to consistent stats. also, same thought, why does it have TRA?
C&P error (probably from the Punisher table I suspect). They're getting ditched for thunderers anywyas.
Graf_Spee wrote:
3. i second apocs thought on the vultures. too advanced. if there is some lack of AT fire let the fire support upgrade be 2 OR 4 stands big, in order to pack in some more lascannons. 50pts for 2 and 75pts for 4 i'd say. futhers the horde character of the list.
Doomkitten wrote:
I'm with Apoc on this one - I'd rather the list have a big weakness than have that weakness patched with Vultures.
Cool ditched.
Graf_Spee wrote:
4. as for the fanatic priest, netepic/has had a unit called "confessor" whipping the formation into a mindless repenting frenzy once the other commanders/commissars in this formation are gone. so lets say, replace one taskmaster in a penal company with a confessor (by choice - not as fix). if the confessor is the formations last remaining "officer" he really starts to drive the formation with holy zeal. all remaining units gain "fearless" for the remainder of the game but can do nothing else than double or engage towards the nearest enemy or conduct a hold action when they fail to activate. when hold comes up the formation must move towards the nearest enemy formation! it may not choose to fire or remove bm.
Kinda cool mechanic but it's pretty detailed for EA (in reality it's probably best to equate all that rot as just being "inspiring"). I'd going to slot that in the memory bank however for Valhallans who are total Minitorium nutbags. Seems appropriate there (the commissars are MORE appropriate here and 3 special rules in a list is rather frowned upon-i'll probably build a custom scenario with them however). Sweet idea!!
Apocolocyntosis wrote:
WE transports are pretty strong in the LATD redux and Feral ork lists as well, but those are tough WE. Ork battlefortresses are good with powerfields … but these prison transports would lack those.
Mass Containment Transporter
WE speed: 25 (less armour than a gorgon, not as zippy as a suped-up mekboy-tinkered battlefort)
Armour 4+, FF/CC 6+
2*heavy stubbers 30cm AP6+
Transport: 8–10?
(10 lets you get abhuman formation in one WE, 8 feels right, 9 lets penal coy with +2 ogryns not split over 3 WE)
Could have some fun with the crit. I mean, there's not a lot to break, could see it being like a WW2 workhorse bomber that can have multiple holes blown through wings and fuselage to little effect – except this thing is stuffed with penal troops. So crit could be D6 unit hits (or 2D3 to really make a point), but no damage to transporter. Motorised shipping containers don't stop if a las cannon shoots through one wall and out the other, but the cargo does … stop.
Cost: bah, depends on if you think gorgon cost is base point for costing or not.
So to recap, WE only really work well in EA because they're fast or tough or plentiful (or all). Basically that means RA and DC3+ which is appropriate for armies that somewhat care about the troops (in the horrible 40k sense of the term) but these guys are literal fodder. Let me counter with the Gorgon. The only reason people take it is it's all they have AND at least that RA soaks up the hits first because you stick them up front and the infantry hug them for cover. The purpose of the penal units is to shot FIRST to protect the vehicles but WE can be directly targeted so it breaks down in game mechanics. Also let me point out that if a DKoK assault company could take chimeras we'd NEVER EVER see a gorgon again (that's 30BM to break a full company and would outnumber every other formation in the game almost-orks excluded). In addition, let's not even bring up the effects of one being lost when loaded with troops and that they're actually armed (and even heavy stubbers don't really count for much so much so they're basically FREE when added).
So there's an important point that needs to be an articulated reason to actually take it. This is either going to be based on cost, which kinda breaks down on the theme because why would you take a presumably expensive or difficult to use piece of equipment (the WE) when there's perfectly good (read: shitty) beaters and technicals you don't care about to load them into? OR it has to serve some specific purpose that loads of crap vehicles doesn't fulfill in both mechanics and fluff. The best I can come up with is something used to smash through a line (like walker) and probably Leader so represent the fact it's got all sorts of guards with stubbers pointed at them so they tend to not try and run away (aka gun pointed at them).
Maybe something like
Mass Containment Transporter
WE speed: 20cm
Armour 4+, FF/CC 6+
2*heavy stubbers 30cm AP6+
Transport: 8 (Ogryns take up 2 spots)
Notes: Leader, Walker, DC3. Critical, embarked 2D6 units take a hit.
100 each?