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Manticores

 Post subject: Re: Manticores
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:16 pm 
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Well in my Steel Legion PDF army i removed the Bombard and added the Colossus because Armageddon is famed for producing the Chimera chassis en masse.

This are the stats:

Imperial Guard Colossus (Armageddon Pattern)
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Armoured Vehicle 20cm 5+ 6+ 5+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Colossus Siege Mortar 15-120cm 1BP Ignore Cover, Indirect Fire*
Heavy Bolter 30cm AP5+ -

Notes: *The Colossus Siege Mortar can't fire directly).

It's basically a Griffon with increased range. It has a 5+ Save because as Armageddon Pattern it has an enclosed cabine. Else the Save would be 6+.

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 Post subject: Re: Manticores
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:57 am 
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Rug wrote:
Evil and Chaos wrote:
I'd still suggest dropping points rather than upping stats.


Well the beauty of the Steel Legion list (or any list using Armageddon Pattern stuff) is that we can legitimately add +1 to the armour of open topped vehicles! Otherwise I am coming round to cheaper Bombards. How do people feel about a 5+ save?

I'm in agreement that the difference between the Collosus and the Bombard in 40k doesn't look to really warrant separate stats for EA. Differences would have to be exaggerated if two units were to be designed for Guard lists (not SL), this may suit are needs here?

I agree with both Rug and E&C here; yet another 120cm range weapon is completely unwarranted.

We need to keep the Mortars, Bombards and similar weapons to the 30cm - 45cm range given that Indirect doubles the ranges. There is the precedent of specifying Indirect weapon ranges (that cannot fire directly) as a total figure, which would allow any distance to be specified from 30cm to 120cm which would allow greater differentiation between the caliber of the various Mortars and Howitzers etc, but in the end you have to ask whether this is worth the effort.

My only gripe here (because of the precedents that they set) is the range of the Manticores and Basilisks. The ranges of these weapons could easily be reduced to be more appropriate to the ranges of other IG weaponry, while still allowing them to be greater than other Races and to cover the entire 6'x4' table that is usually employed. That said, I realise it probably won't happen, not least because they are part of the original E:A stats :(


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 Post subject: Re: Manticores
PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 3:40 pm 
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That and the fact that they aren't remotely broken, so why try to fix them? ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Manticores
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:18 pm 
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Rug wrote:
Evil and Chaos wrote:
I'd still suggest dropping points rather than upping stats.


Well the beauty of the Steel Legion list (or any list using Armageddon Pattern stuff) is that we can legitimately add +1 to the armour of open topped vehicles! Otherwise I am coming round to cheaper Bombards. How do people feel about a 5+ save?

I'm in agreement that the difference between the Collosus and the Bombard in 40k doesn't look to really warrant separate stats for EA. Differences would have to be exaggerated if two units were to be designed for Guard lists (not SL), this may suit are needs here?


Do you think Bombards would be worth 250 for three with a 5+ save?

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 Post subject: Re: Manticores
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:12 pm 
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Rug wrote:
LordotMilk wrote:
Rug wrote:
Evil and Chaos wrote:
I'd still suggest dropping points rather than upping stats.


Well the beauty of the Steel Legion list (or any list using Armageddon Pattern stuff) is that we can legitimately add +1 to the armour of open topped vehicles! Otherwise I am coming round to cheaper Bombards. How do people feel about a 5+ save?

I'm in agreement that the difference between the Collosus and the Bombard in 40k doesn't look to really warrant separate stats for EA. Differences would have to be exaggerated if two units were to be designed for Guard lists (not SL), this may suit are needs here?


Do you think Bombards would be worth 250 for three with a 5+ save?


YES!


Is this to change on the next compendium?

How about the griffin armor?

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 Post subject: Re: Manticores
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:03 am 
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Bombards worth it at 250pts with 5+ armour?
No, still gonna be inferior to basilisks & manticores, and not gonna get taken.

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