Considering at its core its a massive 6dc, 4 void shield (is it? I always thought it was) command centre with a few guns and big transport capacity (would have though 16 stands?) - what should it look like? And as an aside what sort of weapons? I'm not a fan of the big cannon at the front with negative implications for C&C tech and troop capacity. Or is the latter more Capitol Imperialis territory? What should be the difference between these two? What sort of weaponry should the Leviathan have? Stand off silly cannon? AA defences? Point defence stuff? Anti tank gear? Would its role be to go forward or to sit back?

So Levithans first. I hate the current model.


Alternatives I've seen on the net include

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/10/ ... athan.html













Any of these better? Anyone have a better vision?

CI wise I've always thought of it as an 8dc, 6 void shield super heavy transport. Can take 4 vehicles, has a landing pad/elevator (well the original seems to) and a shed load of troops (2 companies?). Maybe be able to take a SHT instead of the vehicles. Front and back access ramps. Weapon fit quite light as the infantry are meant to fight it but something like a defence laser and a couple of heavy weapon hard points on the side. Yes I quite like the current model So something like the current model but with bigger size.

This is an entertaining pic!


WIP CI below

They are support vehicles before anything else. Their weaponry should fit this.

I like the elevator idea for lifting tanks, same for the 'helipad'.

I really dislike hull mounted canon. These are not meant to be line breakers (are they?) and are not exactly small and nimble enough to turn to fire.
(As a line breaker, designed to smash through fortifications and disgorge troops into the heart of the enemy... maybe)

I have a slight dislike for continuous tracks along the side for something this size. The forces when turning would be immense. Multiple bogeys make more sense to me.

The Key difference (for me) has always been that the Leviathan is an IG vehicle, designed and used as a military command and support center.
The Capitol Imperialas is less fixed, but appears to have Ecclisiarchy links as much as anything
.

I have this in the SteelLegion PDF:

Imperial Guard Leviathan Command Centre
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
War Engine 15cm 4+ 3+ 3+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Battle Cannon 75cm AP4+/AT4+ -
6 x Twin Lascannon 45cm AT4+ -
Doomsday Cannon 120cm 3BP Macro-weapon, Fixed Forward Arc

Damage Capacity 4. 2 Void Shields. Critical Hit Effect: The Leviathans tracks are
destroyed. It may not move any more. Subsequent critical hits cause an extra point of
damage.

Notes: Reinforced Armour, Supreme Commander, Thick Rear Armour, Transport
(may carry 20 of the following units: Imperial Guard units: Supreme Commander,
Commander, Infantry, Stormtroopers, Fire Support, Snipers, Conscripts, Ogryns.
Ogryns take up two spaces each)..

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The Capitol Imperialis has been pictured as marine stuff then IG stuff. At the time this mini was actually around, there wasn't a hint of sisters of battle in the Wh40K universe.

The few sketches that were floating around before the re-release of the model was cancelled 6 month before EA were quite a bit more "Gothic" than the original model (more Gothic arches, statues, etc), classic imperial design that wasn't really in place back when the first CI came out.
I think many player tied this design to the eclesiarchy in their mind because we got to saw these sketches a little after the release of the witch hunter codex and the famous illustrations and background hints of mobile cathedrals.

Depending on the illustrations, novels, etc, The original Epic vehicles, the Capitol Imperialis (originally named behemoth I even think to remember, but that name later became associated with its main gun) and the Leviathan got all blurred. Dan Abnett books describes a huge land crawler used by the Legio Invictus for command and coordination purpose for example, but also numerous Leviathans in the Gaunt Ghost series.

What one is led to think, is that the Imperium make use of some huge crawling vehicle designs; some of them are used as mobile base and command centres by the IG (That would be Leviathan command centres), but many of those land crawler are highly individualized vehicles, used as command / coordination centres by the titan legions (possibly re-supply as well? ), mobile cathedral for the Adeptus Sororitas or even just non militant eclesiarchy, probably a few private one owned by the Ordos for their own purpose, maybe a few used as fortresses by Adeptus Astartes chapter.

And probably quite a few fallen to the way of the four gods as well. As most Epic collectors, I have my own plans and fantasies for making my own interpretation on the theme. I think the somewhat "lost in the fluff evolution" definition of the concept is quite liberating and allow for a lot of freedom in your take on the thing. As many large constructs (spaceships, ordinatus), specially when a few STCs are probably shared as a base for different uses and the machine adapted over the centuries, the end result is probably highly customized and unique, a bit like the ordinatus are supposed to be.

Those are odd stats BL, make it seem quite fragile considering its size from its armament and transport. Also I thought the commonly accepted distance to the horizon in Epic was 90cm, how is it firing somewhat indirectly?

How icnonic/important is the honking big cannon on the front?

Wel the big gun at the front is pretty iconic because only the Leviathan has it.

From game experience i can say that it is quite a fire magnet but sturdy.

BTW the maximum non-indirect distance in Epic is 150cm (Manticore) or 120cm (Basilisk).

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I fail to see how its that sturdy - its the same as a deathwheel.

And I think those artillary pieces may not be firing over direct trajectories to get those ranges! Even if not strickly indirect by the rules. The horizon is only around 4 miles away from an elevation use by a tank! Soething energy bases like a volcano cannon would be limited by this.

Is that a sturmtiger in there? I can't imagine what the scale of the original kit was, if that's a 28mm fig next to it - any bigger and you could have toddlers serve as crew!
My impression was that Leviathan was along the lines of BL's stats, and the tank capacity was more the CI's thing. Either way, none of those 40k models is anywhere near big enough

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To be honest, my favorite among the ones posted would have to be the German/Chaos Styled one. I have plans to sell my 2 CIs and scratch build ones of my own, but that is for mid-next year. My original thoughts are to use 4x Guild MBTs as bogeys for a Leviathan and maybe 8 for a CI, but again, this is well into the future, after i finish my 'nids and marines.

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MadMagician
Epic Tyranids

Nice Sturm Tiger conversion ...

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Aren't there dozens of CIs (per hive?) on cadia and the surrounding worlds

According to Armies of the Impirium, the CI can carry 2 companies AND their associated transports, so thats 20 Leman Russ's, 6 SHTs, or 20 Chimera/Rhino/Gorgon sized transports and 40 stands of infantry, Now I know that the military can pack the hell out of a transport, but the CI would need to be obviously Large to fit this. Does anyone have an estimate of what the footprint and height *should* be in epic? Does 80x100 or 100x120 sound right?

The following are some random thoughts so I apologize in advance for the public brainstorming

area wise we could make some assumptions that they are using submarine sized troop bunkers at approx 60sqft you would need about 10mm^2 per 6 troops for bunk space so that is another 2000sqft for bunking space, so realistically you could fit crew quarters, infantry quarters, commissary and amenities in a single floor at 100x120mm (approx 12000 sqft.)

Assume another 2 "floors" for C and C, communications, computers, Chapel, officer quarters and amenities.

The above floors would likely have maximum 10 ft ceilings (I am thinking naval vessel style with piping and wiring exposed runs throughout)

I would assume that the "floors" that contained the docks for the vehicles would need to be about 20 ft high for crane and equipment clearance. Need at least 3 of these for storing the vehicles, add another for munitions, storage and Engineering.

so with that said, I could see one of these easily towering to 120-140 mm tall.

So my call is 120 L * 100 W * 140 H.

Any thoughts?

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MadMagician
Epic Tyranids

If it could carry 6 SHTs then you only have to line up 2 x 3 FW Baneblades and add a few mm all around for armourplatings to determine it's foot print

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