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For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x

 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:06 pm 
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I'm not on my computer, but I seem to remember that Valks are an upgrade to a Drop Company? Would it be worthwhile to cost them seperately, so you can find the balance individually instead of by upgrade? Plus the Vanaheim list would be able to give a rough starting point for Air Cav.

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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:10 pm 
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Yes, I will take that under consideration.

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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:19 pm 
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Honda: Look seriously at some of the ideas posted in the last few days, such as the seperate formation of valkyries with the war engine transport rule. This alone would lead to much more interesting playstyles.


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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:40 pm 
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Regurgitating from memory here but.. there was a question raised on another forum in regards to the Valk transports for upgrades. IIRC there doesn't seem to be a mention of upgrades getting Valks thus leaving part of the formation without transport.

Can anyone shed light?


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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:13 pm 
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I thought the Valk. upgrade for upgrades was dropped due to the fear of massed Valk. disrupt barrages, I believe there could be 9 in a formation as the list stands now (if allowed).

This left the the companies with either a choice of Transport upgrades or Troop upgrades (similar to Eldar Guardian formations).


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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:44 am 
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The Valkyries were set at 4 so that you wouldn't end up with giant formations of Valks and over-the-top BP weaponry.

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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:24 am 
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So then upgrading a formation is useless unless you want foot troops?


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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:35 am 
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Affirmative, unless you want some sort of weird and very slow formation.

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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:52 am 
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Why then have upgrades for that particular formation?


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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:27 am 
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Uhhhh, in case you want them? I don't really understand your question, or at least I'm failing to understand the mystery behind this.

You have a basic formation with Valkyries transports (effectively 8 maximum units). Or...
You have a basic formation without Valkyries (teleport, walk, garrison, whatever). Or...
You have an upgraded formation (teleport, walk, garrison, whatever).

If that wasn't the answer to your question, I'm going to ask you to clarify yourself for me please.

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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:13 am 
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Dobbsy wrote:
Why then have upgrades for that particular formation?


Teleport, all the company upgrades have teleport so if players want to add extras to a core formation it can either set up as normal, garrison or teleport.

Teleport represents the theme of the list being grav chute inserted, the Valkyries are for the air inserted style (some play with a mix of both).

Some players were worried massed formations of Valkyries would be over the top. I believe, it was thought having the max of 4 Valkyries in a formation would alleviate any worries.


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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:51 am 
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Is there a reason something that throws as much lead as a Vulture Punisher doesn't get a FF boost from it? It seems FF4+ would be justified.

Also should the Marauder Destroyer's Hellstrikes (45cm AT4+, FxF) be switched to match the Underwing Rockets (30cm AT4+, FxF) on the Thunderbolt and Lightning Strike? They're the same weapon in 40k.

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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:55 am 
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We can certainly revisit that stat match.

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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 10:55 pm 
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Hi!

I just had an ad-hoc 3k battle, and tried out Elysian Drop Troops for first time!
Opponent went with SL.

I got this
HQ Drop Inf + valks 375
Drop inf + vendetta 350
Drop inf 225
Drop inf 225
Drop mortar inf 225
Vultures 300
Orbital Support 150
Drop sentinel 150
Drop sentinel 150
Drop sentinel 150
Lightning strike fighters 200
Lightning strike fighters 200
Marauder bomber 150
Marauder bomber 150

Opponent had this

HQ 500
Leman Russ + Russ 825
Inf + Sniper 275
Inf + Hydra 300
Vultures 300
Hydra 150
Sentinel 100
Arty (Manticore) 250
Marauders 250

I deployed everything in reserve, the mortar formation as garrison in the middle, valkyre variants in deployment zone. (No teleports first turn)
Totally missed with lunar cruiser, since there was no WE to target, and instead of snatching deployment zone / garrison possibilites, I tried to catch vehicles... missed.
Their vultures killed vendettas with infantry (break), and manticore targeted my HQ (killed one skimmer and its two inf).
My vulture tried to crack russes. 7 hits, all saved.
Rest of my guys tried to regroup, my aircraft did almost no dmg the opponent tried to press on, with almost everything however failed to activate the russes. (At least managed that with 1 blast marker... heheh)
Hydras doubled under my aircraft and pretty much halved it, with 6x6+ AA... it was my failure to let them live first turn.

Second turn came down 2 sentinel formation and 1 infantry, all well placed and blast markered.
Albeit I didn't start the turn, the well hidden placement disallowed the opponent to flush out everyone. When initative came to my hand, some nasty engagement break both formations of the assault.
This time, enemy AA was destroyed and my aircraft did moderately (also intercepted and finished bombers), his small units failing and breaking, his russ fails to activate again, and stucks on objective defend (Bltiz + 1)

Third turn, the rest of folks come down, and finally took initiatve! However, this turn I underrolled each and every shooting, but blast markers pretty much weakened or break all their small stuff, only 1 infantry and russ remained non-broken.
Tie

Continued to turn fourth, which was similar to turn three. The opponent didn't have enough to fight back, and I underrolled to finish off contesting formations!
Tie again, and battle ended.

So yeah it was pretty different of my usual massive ranks of infantry and armour, also first time playing Elysians. List seems quite balanced actually, I think the battle was more decided by tactical decisions (success and failure alike) instead of dices, since both side suffered some degree from it (small formations on my side, the russes on their side)

Impression: Drop infantry dies. It dies if it wins, so dies anyway. Unless you camp on objective, it needs an upgrade either drop infantry++, demo truck or sentinels. [I could go inf++ since I possess that much models actually.]
Valkyrie is good here too. Vendetta ditto. Vulture ditto. (Especially if you choose reasonable target for them ::) )
Mortar. Well this isn't that bad, though not the best garrison, but something is needed to hold back enemy, until drops come in. (I guess) I think its not that powerful to have any restriction. And also they die quickly aswell.
Drop sentinels are quite good, although I haven't tried to kill the russes after losing vendettas and doing no dmg with vultures, so they ended up objectve grabbing and hunting infantry with macro...
The lost of scout ability with sentinel was a pain for me (beacuse first time trying drop troops) but I clearly see it balancing the macro weapon which is always good have.
Lightning Strike fighters good antitank. At the end game, I punched out all their armor, so they become useless, since all their target was infantry (without AP) or russes (without any chance). It wasn't their fault, so yeah, they are pretty much good tankhunters.
Single marauder vs dual marauder I always thought the single one was better or perhaps closer to some sort of fluff or something, but they really become useless with 3 BP as aircraft.
The dual with 6 BP is very useful clearing up infantry or placing much BM even when underrolling, which the single marauder wasn't really capable of. (I managed to attack the manticore battery, with 3 BP attacking 2x 5+ AT and the twin lasca 4+... ended up placing a blast marker on them, rallying, reloading, and kicking my face next turn...)
In my theoryhammer, the dual marauder with 4+ armor 1 DC (250 p) is better, and wouldn't take a single with 5+ armor and 2 DC (150 p), same weapons, but the dual gains the bonus from 6 BP.

After all this, in the end game, it happened me first time, that I was really lacking AP firepower, which wasn't the case with Steel legion or Baran Siegemasters... strange.

EDIT: But it was definietly a good, thinkering, game. I really want to go a second battle trying it out again, basing my countings on the experiences of this battle.

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 Post subject: Re: For Elysia! The Elysian Drop Troop Regiment v3.x
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 2:02 am 
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I've used the following list twice:
Reg HQ, hardened vets, drop sentinels, 400
Mortar coy., fire support, hardened vets, 250
Drop coy., fire support, cyclops, drop sentinels, 375
Drop coy., fire support, hardened vets, drop sentinels, 375
Tauros, 150
Tauros, 150
Support sentinels, sky talons, 225
Storm troopers, Valkyries, 350
Drop sentinels, sky talons, 225
Marauder destroyer, 175
Marauder destroyer, 175
Lightning, 150
3000 points, 12 activations
I am somewhat limited by the number of Valkyrie/vulture models I have, so settled on teleporting rather than air cav.

One of the games was against an ideal opponent, a drop list black legion with limited AA/air cover. My opponent dropped in on one my right, I teleported to my left, and we ended up fighting the length of the table. Because the BL dropped a lot onto the table, the drop companies' lack of mobility wasn't a disadvantage, because the retinues had to walk too. Also, the small BL FMs were vulnerable to ff. The sky talons and Valkyries used their disrupt rockets to good effect. It was a solid win for the Elysians, which surprised me. The marauder destroyers fill an important AT gap, and were useful. I would agree that 3bp would be less so, but I haven't tried it.

The other game (last Saturday actually) was against a not-so-ideal opponent, the necrons. Pylons negated my air with extreme prejudice, knocking all of my aircraft out do the sky. I tried to drop close to the pylons to lay BMs or engage them early on, but was unsuccessful. I was able to kill a fair number of monoliths, but all of my drop companies ended up wiped out. Two teleport armies facing each other meant that we had a very bloody turn 1; in turn 3 I had the mortar company left and the necrons had BTS and T&H.

I like the units in the list, but I do not think the teleport mechanic is right for a parachute drop. If it were up to me, I would give The drop companies self planet fall in some form (Valkyries themselves gain it, or are used as markers like drop pods, for example), and make the Elysian player pre-plot his drop. I can't think of any drop in history that was off the cuff like a teleport, and I doubt the fluff supports one in sci fi/40k. The exception would be the storm troopers. Being an elite, fire-brigade or assault-type fm, it is conceivable to me that they would be loitering above the battlefield to be called upon to act like poor man's terminators. I would even be in favor of them having the ability to teleport inside the Valkyrie, to limit BMs and extend their engage range... This would have obvious risks if the Elysian player loses strategy, but storm troopers are targets anyway. Further, as a matter of game play, drop companies need to take upgrades in order to be viable FMs, and teleport is just silly when rolling for 16+ units.

Cyclops are funny little units, but I would drop them, and just give the commander a MW ff attack, most likely a single shot. It's funky that you have to roll for teleporting in a remote control robot, and the expendable mechanic doesn't quite work in the confines of this list. An abstract ability for the commander unit would be better, IMO. The commander should have a plasma gun as well. With the plasma gun on the drop infantry being 1 shot/2stands, the company can take 1 more bm before a shot is suppressed. I don't think that would be broken; they only have 4 shots, for Pete's sake.

So I agree with commissar Holt: they die hard, they die easy, they die often. In fact, my painting thread for these guys was going to be called "We're all gonna die: the Elysians." (Just haven't gotten off my duff to take and post pics.) I'm glad someone else is playing the list though!

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