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Guard Tank Variants

 Post subject: Re: Guard Tank Variants
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 4:43 pm 
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Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Agreed on the price, especially as BL tends to fit his designs to 40k first and foremost. That is the same reason for the disparity in the Quake's stats; they are based off the stats of the 40k tanks.


True. The Banesword Quake Cannon IS a weaker version of the Titan Quake Cannon.
Note that the Shadowsword's Volcano Cannon ALSO is weaker than the Titan Volcano Cannon (where the Reaver mounted one is weaker than the Warlord mounted one too)...in Wh40k.

Also i support the view that all the super-heavy tanks don't have to have the same points cost.

For the Hellammer Cannon i came up with 30cm AP3+/AT3+ Disrupt, Ignore Cover

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 Post subject: Re: Guard Tank Variants
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 4:59 pm 
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BlackLegion wrote:
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Agreed on the price, especially as BL tends to fit his designs to 40k first and foremost. That is the same reason for the disparity in the Quake's stats; they are based off the stats of the 40k tanks.


True. The Banesword Quake Cannon IS a weaker version of the Titan Quake Cannon.
Note that the Shadowsword's Volcano Cannon ALSO is weaker than the Titan Volcano Cannon (where the Reaver mounted one is weaker than the Warlord mounted one too)...in Wh40k.

Also i support the view that all the super-heavy tanks don't have to have the same points cost.

For the Hellammer Cannon i came up with 30cm AP3+/AT3+ Disrupt, Ignore Cover



BL, I see what you're talking about as I look at my various copies of Apocolypse. Though Epic has set a precedent by not changing the stats between the Titan and Shadowsword's weapons. Though the differences in WH40K Apocolypse between the cannons shows in their range and blast radii. As far as damaging, I don't think there'd be a need to change the EA Firepower stats. As far as range,...well I'd be one to drop a superheavy's range since it doesn't have the same elevation that a Titan commands, but there is that niggling precedent set by the Shadowsword.

But thanks for the take on the Hellhammer stats.


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 Post subject: Re: Guard Tank Variants
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 5:07 pm 
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Well as always: My calculated (yes really calculated as i have a working system for such stuff) stats are always intended as a starting point for discussion and tweaking to make them work properly in Epic :)

So i'm happy to use the Banesword with a Titan's Quake Cannon stats :) ..if there will be any list who uses one :D

Also on rethinking the Banehammer's Tremor Cannon could justify 2BP as it has the same Strength, Armourpiercing and Blast radius as the Bombard's Heavy Siege Mortar.

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 Post subject: Re: Guard Tank Variants
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:01 am 
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Not to dredge up an old thread but this is honestly the best place to put this. Currently kitbashing some Lemon Rustles and some turrets from old 3Edition epic pred annihilators to make some Leman Russ Annihilators and realized NO lists have this unit. In the OP, the Leman Russ Annihilator was included but no one's taken a stab at stats (pricing is a WHOLE different matter that I leave to the big boys :)) Throwing this out there for thoughts->

Leman Russ Annihilator
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Armoured Vehicle 20cm 4+ 6+ 5+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Twin Lascannon 45cm AT4+
Lascannon 45cm AT5+
Notes: Reinforced Armour.

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 Post subject: Re: Guard Tank Variants
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:25 pm 
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Looking at all the egg shell sentinels I have laying around, I'm going to mod up some LR Punishers as well. Things we know:

Unit is PRICEY
Punisher cannon is even more effective than vulcan mega bolter in rate of fire but is smaller
Turret mounted
Usually fielded with sponson mounted weapons
Punisher is short range
At the highest rear armour of the russ variants

all that being said I'll propose the following for friendly play->

Leman Russ Punisher
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Armoured Vehicle 20cm 4+ 6+ 3+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Punisher Gatling Cannon 20cm AP3+/AT5+
2x Plasma Cannon 30cm AP5+/AT5+
Lascannon 45cm AT5+
Notes: Reinforced Armour, thick rear armour

And not to step on Moscovian's area but if used, I'd advocate it only being leveraged in the tank legion list and only friendly games at the following price in the (rare variant upgrade) on the Tank Company as follows->
-Leman Russ Punisher (+70 points each)

Thoughts?

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Last edited by jimmyzimms on Mon May 21, 2012 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Guard Tank Variants
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:40 pm 
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...We also know the exact stats of the Punisher cannon...

It's S5, Range 24", Heavy 20.

That should give it a substantial FF score (I'd say 2+ might even be justifiable, or 2x3+).

I dunno where you're getting the bit about the rear armor from...

I'd go with:

Leman Russ Punisher
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Armoured Vehicle 20cm 4+ 6+ 2+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Punisher Gatling Cannon 15cm 3xAP3+
2x Heavy Bolter 30cm AP5+
Lascannon 45cm AT5+
Notes: Reinforced Armour

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 Post subject: Re: Guard Tank Variants
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:05 pm 
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Simulated Knave wrote:
...We also know the exact stats of the Punisher cannon...

It's S5, Range 24", Heavy 20.

That should give it a substantial FF score (I'd say 2+ might even be justifiable, or 2x3+).


In review I agree. It should be AP w/multiple attacks to better represent the insane rate of fire it puts out (it is also noted in the fluff "...[punisher] tank crews have reputations for being both trigger-happy and gung-ho" (IG Codex 5edition, pg49). This fits well with the feel of the unit.

Simulated Knave wrote:
I dunno where you're getting the bit about the rear armor from...

The codex pg 102 has the armour stats. Basically the variants fall into two sets of rear armour, the Punisher falling into the stronger rear armour camp. Now if we feel that this isn't going to be appropriate at the epic scale of things :D, I'll fine with that but it makes sense as this is an up close and personal tank that expects to wade into the thick of battle where the extra armour makes logical sense (or at least as logical as a universe where people fly through uncounted light years in ships carrying enough firepower to destroy a planet yet decide to fight on the ground with chainsaws :D).

Simulated Knave wrote:
I'd go with:

Leman Russ Punisher
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Armoured Vehicle 20cm 4+ 6+ 2+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Punisher Gatling Cannon 15cm 3xAP3+
2x Heavy Bolter 30cm AP5+
Lascannon 45cm AT5+
Notes: Reinforced Armour


I can support everything other than the 15cm range (even bolters vs plasma). The punisher cannon has the SAME effective range in 40k as the Demolisher cannon so why the range nurf? 20cm is plenty fine I'd expect. Love to get some input on that! :)

thanks (as always) for the inputs/feedback/random thoughts, SK!

-jimbo

PS any thoughts on the recommendation price-wise?

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 Post subject: Re: Guard Tank Variants
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:42 pm 
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Quote:
The codex pg 102 has the armour stats. Basically the variants fall into two sets of rear armour, the Punisher falling into the stronger rear armour camp. Now if we feel that this isn't going to be appropriate at the epic scale of things :D, I'll fine with that but it makes sense as this is an up close and personal tank that expects to wade into the thick of battle where the extra armour makes logical sense (or at least as logical as a universe where people fly through uncounted light years in ships carrying enough firepower to destroy a planet yet decide to fight on the ground with chainsaws :D).


I'm not sure AV11 is enough to give Thick Rear Armour (or, more accurately, I certainly hope AV11 isn't enough to give Thick Rear Armour! :P).

Quote:
I can support everything other than the 15cm range (even bolters vs plasma). The punisher cannon has the SAME effective range in 40k as the Demolisher cannon so why the range nurf? 20cm is plenty fine I'd expect. Love to get some input on that! :)


My major thought on the Heavy Bolters was that it'd bring the price down to a lower level - and this thing needs all of that it can get.

Regarding range - the Demolisher Cannon is an ordnance weapon, among other considerations. 20cm might not be a bad range (indeed, I think making all 24" weapons that have an actual shot 20cm might not be a bad idea in future, though I think the weight of precedent is already too great). 15cm brackets are more usual, though, and 30cm would definitely be excessive.

Quote:
thanks (as always) for the inputs/feedback/random thoughts, SK!


Not a problem. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Guard Tank Variants
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 8:46 pm 
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At least 15cm allows for overwatch shooting before FF so that's good. I get the 15cm increment so that's fine but should come with another price cut (10points for bolters and range sound good?)

On the TRA, well that's the AV spread for Russies in 40k so... :)

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 Post subject: Re: Guard Tank Variants
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 10:04 pm 
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The Demolisher and Executioner lack TRA, so I don't think the Punisher needs it. :)

As to price cut - it doesn't sound bad. I'm not au fait with the philosophies behind Russ costing, though. :P

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