So finally after a few weeks of frienzied painting i mount my babies into there storage to be taken to the fields of glory and ledgend to herald there debut on the battlefield, out i roll, with pride and allthe hope of a D6 mass generating machine of Imperial forces, across the fray i see Coming to face me a wild and seething forces of bio mass, the ravgaing hordes of the tyrinads roll like a wave of destruction down the valley and in a teeming mass hit my battle lines and in the course of 2 Turns nearly Devour my entire 4000 points of guard.

BAMMMM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reality check follows.

and here i am asking for some humble advice on how one should go about making a nice viable guard list.

in a nut shell at 4k i was running with

3 flights of T bolts
1 Bombers
5 Artillery batterys
3 infantry comps 1 was mech 1 with fire support
shadowwaord comp
Deathstrikes

or close enough to.

*transmission Ends*




Tim NZ

Remember everything that follows is seen through a tank tinted lens.

Don't bother with the Marauders. They aren't worth it, especially against a horde like 'nids. T-bolts are good in general to keep hammering broken formations in the backfield, but have little to ne effect against unbroken formations. Against 'nids, therefore, they're nearly useless. In an all comers list, I'd take two flights max.

Shadowswords are best in individuals. The shots are powerful and accurate enough that against smaller WE three is excessive, but you will often have anough WEs in the field to spread the love, and add activations at the same time. Baneblades are better in companies than alone, however.

I rarely use Deathstrikes. They can do an absurd amount of damage, but I find Shadowswords better due to the one shot nature of Deathstrikes.

What kind of arty were you runnng? Manticores are better in batteries, due to the 6BP, Disrupt, but Basilisks are more effective in companies since 3BP is kind of paltry.

I am not a footslogger kind of guy. It's a personal play style decision, but there you go. Therefore, advice I gove regarding foot fornations is more theoretical than otherwise. Two infantry companies with fire support garrisoned on your Take and Holds on Overwatch seem to be as much groundpounder as you'd want. Especially against 'nids, they'd only provide a snack, but they'd take time to shift. All others should be Mech, as you'll want the ability to shift the attack, and the AP firepower will triple, and the AT double.

Sentinels. Take them. I swear by the scout screen, especially against an engage army like 'nids. Line two or three squadrons up against the centerline at 20cm apart. The 'nids then need to remove at least one in order to pass, and need to use an activation to do it. One that could be eating a more important formation. It will also mean that the 'nids will be easy prey for your...

TANKS! Tank companies can be a contriversial choice, but I swear by these to. Never use them at range (>45cm). Against armored targets, make sure you get those Lascannon in. Against infantry, get inside 30cm with your heavy bolters. Double if you need to. If you're engaged, you can take it, though those bugs with the MW FF are a pain. It's all about weight of fire. 4+ RA will forgive a multitude of sins.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

I agree with most of what Spectrar said.

Arty batteries are superior to Marauders for IG.
Shadowswords are best taken individually.
3 Shadowswords and Deathstrikes is into overkill territory for TK weapons. You can trim some.

I'd also add...
Fire support platoons for IG infantry are awesome. Take them. They more than double the firepower, add more FF, greater numbers, and improve the resistance to suppression.

I'd also agree with most of what Spectrar and Neal said. However, I use three shadowswords in my "all comers" IG list, and find them quite useful. Chances are, if you're facing a war engine worth targeting with a volcano cannon you'll need to get through some voids/power fields, so three shots are better than one. Whether its a formation with 3 units or just 3 DC, small formations are just too fragile, IMO. They are also great at taking out small but tough FM's - think SM devastators. As long as they don't get cc'd, they are a decent support formation for engagements.

If you're going to take formations of superheavies and tanks though, scouts (i.e. sentinals, etc.) are a must. Those things are terminator bait. I'd recommend strormtroopers and valkyries as well. They are hard to use correctly, but your opponent can't ignore them, and so will target them (instead of a more important fm).

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Let us playtest like the Greeks of old... You know the ones I mean

Jaldon has written a good strategy guide you might want to read. It gives excellent advice on force compositions and usage.
viewtopic.php?f=95&t=19183

Like sagacious people here have already noted, your list seems top heavy in aircraft, TK weapons and perhaps even artillery. Trim these aspects a little and add a little more "line" troops, such as inf, mech or tanks, plus recon sentinels or other cheap screen troops. You also want some fast hitters, such as storm troopers (mounted) or rough riders, to be able to engage where you want, when you want.

How long do you leave formations like this on OW? Would you leave them untouched for 2 full turns, leaving them on OW?

Realistically, I would expect them to be in a position to use their OW by T2 at the latest. After that, they should take a more active role. Remember though, INF on OW in the open get a 5+ cover save; don't move out too early.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

I would resist the call of Leman russ - they just do not perform well enough unless the enemy is simply lining up in front of them in range each turn. Plus the damn things always seem to fail an activation.

Toss in 2-3 warhounds for the 1+ activations and speed. But in this sort of list you can't loose them like you would in a mech list.

The arty is problematic as there is so much of it you can't guard it against air assaulters or similar. So while you might be brillant against one type of army you will be beaten by the rest.

Incidentally if you want shadowswords, artilary and infantry, why not look at the siege list?

3 companies and 7 support formations : you can't do that. You can only field a maximum of 2 support formations per company.

I tried similar lists (max aircrafts, max artillery, max infantry). It remains playable (fun, and correct chance to win), but it doesn't hurt that much.

4 companies and 6 support

Companies
3 infantry comps 1 was mech 1 with fire support
shadowwaord comp

Support
5 Artillery batterys
Deathstrikes

Air
3 flights of T bolts
1 Bombers


All fine and dandy

Oups

I would disagree. Russes are best used in an aggressive role. I take potshots with the battlecannon when I need to, but the effective range of a Russ is 45cm vs AV, 30cm vs INF. Shoot the crap out of the enemy, then roll in and engage with supporting fire. I rarely see them fail an activation. It does help that I seem to save at the 85-90% mark with them instead of the expected 75%.

Prevailing opinion does seem to go the other way for some reason, though.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.