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DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.3

 Post subject: Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.2
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:31 am 
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Gotta say really happy with the current version of the list. If I have one minor issue its just with the deathstrike missile launcher (non silo). I don't understand why for the same points as normal gaurd ones you are just running them as normal gaurd ones. Seems like the new version is change for the sake of change. Single model so it breaks on any failed activation and dies easier despite the extra armour. Beyond that it has all the shots and damage as normal ones.

Wouldn't it just be easier to keep it simple? I'd expect most would run the silo anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.2
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:57 am 
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I agree on having normal deathstrikes.

One thing that i have said from the start is that singelton warhounds should be taken out. They give a mobile option to an army thats supposed to be not so mobile.
DKoK are hard to beat head on in assaults, but they can't reach all over the board very fast. Warhounds do this though so they can be both strong in the centre slowly moving forward and do ffast flanking attacks...

I think the EpicUK list is great because it dorsn't allow singelton warhounds to be combined with the infantery w gorgons.

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 Post subject: Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.2
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:59 am 
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partisan_nick wrote:
The reason for the battle was mainly to try out the new DKOK which actually feels quite close to balance from my point of view. 2 Gorgon inf units are a lot easier for the opponent to handle than three since they are very slow and can´t shoot at all.

This battle showed that Gorgon companies are quite likely to lose engagements against Battle Class titans. Both when assaulting and assaulted. Even having really lucky engagements my DKOK lost the first engagement and the second went to roll-off. Statistically they will hit less than 9 times if all units are in range and they are unhurt, even against a unshielded battle titan this will only cause something like 2,5 wounds. A Titan equipped with some CC/FF weapon will probably do more damage to the Inf. Co. – definitely if charging and avoiding the Gorgons. The DKOK will have inspiring and outnumber but the result is far from certain. A battle titan is more expensive but has an extreme advantage regarding shooting and some regarding mobility.


Thanks for the feedback and especially for taking the time to write a battle report.

Quote:
Gotta say really happy with the current version of the list. If I have one minor issue its just with the deathstrike missile launcher (non silo). I don't understand why for the same points as normal gaurd ones you are just running them as normal gaurd ones. Seems like the new version is change for the sake of change. Single model so it breaks on any failed activation and dies easier despite the extra armour. Beyond that it has all the shots and damage as normal ones.


Thanks for the feedback. The mobile version will be out. The silo is much weaker than it was in the old list, but not quite as bad as you described it; it is DC2, so a failed activation doesn't break it. It's as easy to break as a standard DS formation, but not easier.


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 Post subject: Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.3
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:03 am 
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Revision 1.3 is now live, on the first page of this thread.

Main changes:
[] Trojans no longer free component of Heavy Support Battery.
Heavy Support Batteries may have 3 Gun Emplacements (free) or replace them with three Trojans (25 points)

[] Twelve Death Korps Rough Rider units (non-scout) reduced to 275 Points to make them more competitive with Six (scout) Rough Riders at 150

[] Option to take mobile Deathstrike Missile Launcher removed, leaving just the immobile silo. DC2 immobile 4+ non-reinforced, same price as Mobile launcher.


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 Post subject: Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.3
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:05 pm 
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Thanks for the update Matthew,

Looking forward to having a game finally with these puppies tomorrow, now that i've got Iyanden out of my system!

Potentially have the green light to take this revision to the Sydney Titans tournament here on the east coast in October.

Cheers.

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 Post subject: Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.3
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:18 am 
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Great work Matt, it's hard to keep up the progress as so many other threads have demonstrated!

Just FYI with previous post I was referring to the mobile death strikes not the silo but since that has been removed it's no longer an issue. I'm a fan of the silo in its current state. Seems a fair compromise.


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 Post subject: Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.3
PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:34 am 
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Hi gents,

Yesterday I managed a game with Zac (Caz). I was uing the latest revision of the DkoK (1.3) facing the current adeptus astartes list.

Quote:
Death Korps list, 3,00pts

Reg HQ
19 DKok inf plus sup com & 2 gorgons (200) total = [600]

Inf company
19 dkok inf plus commander & 2 gorgons (200) total = [500]

Death Rider Company [275]

Death Rider Scout Platoon [150]

Death Rider Scout Platoon [150]

Deathstrike Missile Launcher [200]

Super-Heavy Tank Platoon, shadowsword[200]

Heavy Support Battery, Hydras, trojans[3] [150]

Heavy Support Battery, Earthshakers [200]

Warhound titan [275]

Thunderbolts [150]

Thunderbolts [150]


Quote:
and the astartes, 3,000pts
1. Tactical Det 500 Sup Comd 2 x Razorbacks 2 x Rhinos Hunter
Terminator Det 400 Chaplain
3. Bike Det 250 Chaplain 1 x Attack Bike
4. Land Speeder Det 250 2 x Typhoon
5. Predator Det 250
6. Land Raider Det 325
7. Thunderhawk 200
8. Whirlwind Det 375 Hunter
9. Warhound Titan 275
10. Thunderbolt Sqn 175


So while we were strapped for time, I didn't manage a turn for turn recount of what happened in the game but I’d like to lay the smack down with just a highlight reel sort of write up.
The Astartes list managed to win the initiative every turn, it would have been nice to have the upper hand in one of the turns going first, but not going first is to be completely expected when running guard so it was no skin off my nose.
The missile silo performed well, I used 1 missile in turn one and rolled fairly shockingly for my damage roll on his warhound, so next turn I used the 2nd missile to finish off the warhound, which really helped with my board control on my left flank. There of course were some grumblings from the peanut gallery from out mate and Iyanden AC Mic Fair, who believes they're still a bit hard.
But I think its close to on par of where it needs to be – unbiased.
As you can see I ran the core formation of the Death rider company – what a bunch of good chaps these boys were. They scooted up the left flank hugging cover and gobbled up a Land Raider formation in the second turn. Delicious. They then attracted a lot of fire that allowed my Warhound to hunt down and eventually successfully secure the Blitz objective that was being protected by a unit of Whirlwinds.
Interestingly enough the marines teleported terminators turn two and claimed an intermingle assault against the hydra formation & dragged the shadowsword in. this was a mix of me not seeing them as a viable target and poor placement after movement. As luck would have it, zac could not have rolled more 2's and 1's had he tried. Damn the dice gods! Terminators broke suffering a casualty and would later be picked off and depleted by the shadowsword in the following rounds.

Very early in the game and regretfully I was more aggressive with my two infantry companies than I should have which lead to the very early death of the two gorgons in BTS/sup com formation this formation ended up playing the broken /not/broken game and eventually was destroyed.
I had an engagement teed up of the other infantry formation clipping assaulting his sup com/tactical formation. I won the combat but then fluffed my resolution rolls, zac rolled high and I gathered my things and left. Shame!
The death riders scouts, while one formation was broken very early in the game and remained that way for the rest of the game (shocking rolls for rally) the other formation was a good pestering formation that later claimed T&H)
The Land speeders and bikes did a great job of being pesky mongrels soaking up a lot of damage from thunderbolts and anything else I could spare.

The game went to turn 4 after a 1-0 grid lock at the bottom of turn 3 in the marines favor, which ended up 2-2 draw and the Dkok only getting up 100-200 more victory points.
Victory conditions were
Dkok : Blitz, T&H
Astartes: BTS, T&H
A very close and enjoyable game.

The gorgons, while robust certainly died rather swiftly with what I would call average dice rolls.
The core death riders are an excellent formation, that require an almost surgical strike to be effective which makes then a fun and challenging option to use. I quiet like these guys and will be keeping them in the list. (have we not all had dreams of running half a dozen of these for your core formations with no infantry companys – yes please)
the silo should be left as is, I feel its yes a 1+ inclusion in the army but its not soul destroying, I think much like the gorgons people are still just thinking of how filthy they used to be and instantly disowning them now.
I'm contemplating dropping to a single formation of thunderbolts for the inclusion of another formation of hydras as I felt a little lacking with my AA bubbles.
Standard
Death rider scouts sort of performed much the way you would expect, although poor judgement lead to one of the formations being broken turn 1, but you live and learn.

Thanks Matt, I'm glad to finally be pushing these models around after all these months of owning them, your persistence and constant progression has been fantastic for this list. Cheers mate.

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 Post subject: Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.3
PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:20 am 
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So this was my first game against DKOK and it was certainly an eye opener. They sheer number of activations and the number of activations and the size of them is quite daunting. I know i made some positional errors and activated things in the wrong order due to the shock and horror of the gorgons. However after playing them I dont think they are horrible. The gorgons while yes are resilient still died (maybe a bit of luck involved but there were no crits) so I think next time i could position and target select much better.

The massive rough rider unit is death incarnate. my god that unit getting an engage off now horrifies me.

The silo im not to fussed on as without making major changes to the Deathstrike missile shot itself i feel the silo is a reasonable compromise.

Overall the game showed me that DKOK is going to be a tough list to beat but is beatable. I think Fudd will notch several wins once he gets more practice.

I look forward to more games against the DKOK


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 Post subject: Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.3
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:28 am 
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Quote:
The core death riders are an excellent formation, that require an almost surgical strike to be effective which makes then a fun and challenging option to use. I quiet like these guys and will be keeping them in the list. (have we not all had dreams of running half a dozen of these for your core formations with no infantry companys – yes please)


You could legally do that with DKOK, but the Supreme Commander is tied to the Infantry formations. That would be a very high price to pay for a low strategy army, so I expect armies to almost universally include at least one infantry formation. The change is likely to be that people take a more sane and managable 2 instead of the old 3.

Quote:
The missile silo performed well, I used 1 missile in turn one and rolled fairly shockingly for my damage roll on his warhound, so next turn I used the 2nd missile to finish off the warhound, which really helped with my board control on my left flank. There of course were some grumblings from the peanut gallery from out mate and Iyanden AC Mic Fair, who believes they're still a bit hard.
But I think its close to on par of where it needs to be – unbiased.


Was mick grumbling that the warhound was a bit hard, or the deathstrike or both?

Caz wrote:
I look forward to more games against the DKOK


Great, that's not something you used to hear said often by the player on the recieving end :D


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 Post subject: Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.3
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:41 am 
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Quote:
Matt-Shadowlord wrote:
Quote:
The core death riders are an excellent formation, that require an almost surgical strike to be effective which makes then a fun and challenging option to use. I quiet like these guys and will be keeping them in the list. (have we not all had dreams of running half a dozen of these for your core formations with no infantry companys – yes please)


You could legally do that with DKOK, but the Supreme Commander is tied to the Infantry formations. That would be a very high price to pay for a low strategy army, so I expect armies to almost universally include at least one infantry formation. The change is likely to be that people take a more sane and managable 2 instead of the old 3.

Ah yes, this is very true. i'd be hard pressed to leave home without a supreme commander. that being said the death riders certainly are a glass hammer.

Quote:
Quote:
The missile silo performed well, I used 1 missile in turn one and rolled fairly shockingly for my damage roll on his warhound, so next turn I used the 2nd missile to finish off the warhound, which really helped with my board control on my left flank. There of course were some grumblings from the peanut gallery from out mate and Iyanden AC Mic Fair, who believes they're still a bit hard.
But I think its close to on par of where it needs to be – unbiased.


Was mick grumbling that the warhound was a bit hard, or the deathstrike or both?


I think it was a bit more of a rib, I don't think Mic was legitimately upset. Mostly because there was so much hate for the original version of the silo.

Caz wrote:
I look forward to more games against the DKOK


Great, that's not something you used to hear said often by the player on the receiving end :D


Rather encouraging! and also proof that the list has moved in the right direction.

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 Post subject: Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.3
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:53 am 
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Matt mic was grumbnling at the silo

Also I enjoyed playing the DKOK as I had never played them or anything like them before. Deployment rocked around and Fudd just kept getting models out and just never stopped haha

It was a challenge to play against an it looks like an army that will help improve myself as a player i.e. for positioning and unit selection etc. Plus everyone likes a challenge right :)

Having never played against the old DKOK I cant compare the two but I dont feel the list that Fudd took was overly broken in anyway


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 Post subject: Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.3
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:06 am 
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*edit*

Disregard - i misread something.

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 Post subject: Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.3
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:26 am 
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Not a biggie either way given how often it's taken but should the Warlord Titan be 825 points rather than 850? I've noticed that in the Cadian and new Steel Legion lists it's reduced? Just for consistency I guess?


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 Post subject: Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.3
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:13 am 
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Actually we should be 850 with the updated gatling blaster to bring ourselves into alignment with AMTL I think (same with Reavers too)

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 Post subject: Re: DEATH KORPS: Revision V1.3
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:52 am 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
Actually we should be 850 with the updated gatling blaster to bring ourselves into alignment with AMTL I think (same with Reavers too)


Sure, even better.


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