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LandRaiders

The_Real_Chris

Post subject: LandRaiders

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:19 am

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
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Location: London

Epic doesn't use marines at company level anymore like say guard, they are broken down.

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vanvlak

Post subject: LandRaiders

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:24 am

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Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:52 am
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Location: Malta

Quote (Tas @ 15 Dec. 2005 (08:40))

Quote (Legion 4 @ 15 Dec. 2005 (15:49))

I some cases L/Rdrs may be used in Co. Level formations ... but I really don't have a problem with it either way.

"Ironwing" Company for those recall their early DA Fluff!
:cool:

Really? Didn't know this - sounds good.

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nealhunt

Post subject: LandRaiders

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:07 pm

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

The 75 points would be upgrade wise. Is this two low?

I think so. Why would anyone take any of the other armor choices at 75 if LRs were the same price? I certainly don't think the others should be dropped to 50.

One option might be to modify the organization of the LR upgrade slightly, i.e. 2 LRs for X points or 4 LRs for Y points. That way you could shave a few points without making it a big 25-per-unit discount.

I actually think that most of the SM upgrades should cost as much as the "core" cost or even a bit more. With small SM formations and TSKNF the additional units sometimes provide durability in excess of their straight unit stats. That means even though I agree that the armor is slightly overpriced and could drop below 75 per unit in the formation cost, I think the armor upgrades should stay at 75 per tank.

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Legion 4

Post subject: LandRaiders

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:23 pm

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
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Location: Ohio - USA

Yes, since we follow SM1 and SM2(occasionally) TO&Es ... as Tas said there are L/Rdr Cos. (3 plts of 3 + 1 Cmd Track [SM2]) ... and each SM1 Bn is organized with 3 Cos. of 3 Dets each + 3 Bn Spt Dets and a Trans Pool of Rhinos and L/Rdrs as well. ?And and in the DAs case ... Ironwing = Preds, L/Rdr Dets to Co. level, if you decide to organize in that manner. ?I sent copies of my MTOEs to Tas and he knows what I'm talking about. ?The E:A lists are one of the few things I don't like about "Epic pt.IV" ! ? ? ? ? ? ? :;):

But as always do what works for you ... :alien:

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nealhunt

Post subject: LandRaiders

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:04 pm

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA

Yes, since we follow SM1 and SM2(occasionally) TO&Es ... as Tas said there are L/Rdr Cos. (3 plts of 3 + 1 Cmd Track [SM2])

That's not the same thing. The issue is how large of a formation works as an individual force. In that case, even though it's a company TOE, the 3-tank platoon is the operational group and (iirc) the entire company doesn't work in unison.

SMs can field a company of LRs in EA the same way they can field a Battle Company by just buying the individual detachments. Three LR detachments = company.

The only thing missing is an entry on the army list that says "1 company - 3 formations - x points."

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Legion 4

Post subject: LandRaiders

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:11 pm

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
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Location: Ohio - USA

I see ... yes, the individual dets function separately ...

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Malakai

Post subject: LandRaiders

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 7:33 pm

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Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:21 am
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Location: United States

Quote (Chroma @ 22 Nov. 2005 (18:08))

My thought was that they should've been a 2DC War Engine! ?They've got a Machine Spirit, AV14 all around in 40k, and are bristling with weapons! ?They should be the toughest "tank" in the game.

But that idea was shot down... *sigh*

I like this idea. I think I'm going to try it out.

Malakai

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CAL001

Post subject: LandRaiders

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 1:14 pm

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Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:54 am
Posts: 1927
Location: Australia

Hi

Cout me in on the points drop, as a SM player I think that we pay far to much for ATSKNF. Bring it down, make LR's more appealing to us all.

Cheers
CAL

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Jaldon

Post subject: LandRaiders

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 5:09 pm

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Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:38 am
Posts: 720
Location: Utah, pick a Pacific Island the other half of the year.

You'll never see them made into a 2xDC WE, which is, 2/3 of the Damage Capacity of a Warhound Scout Titan :oops:

I could easily see a 25pt discount for formations (Tanks), but as Neal said no change for the upgrade costs.

Vindicator/Predator Det. 275pts
Land Raider Det. 375pts

Works for me anyways :blues:

Jaldon

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Squared

Post subject: LandRaiders

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:33 am

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Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:07 am
Posts: 61

Hi, I've been away from these boards for awhile now, work and such.

The tank formations in the SM army can never fit in a primary role. In other words they do not fit in the fast attack or grunt formations. These are support formations, unable to operate without other formations. The primary purpose is to soften up the enemy prior to an assult by the infantry. As such I think that we need to worry less about making these formations too easy of a choice. I doubt we will ever see more than a few formations in any army regardless of cost.

The price drop idea is certainly the easiest option. I personally feel that 250 for Vindicator and Predators and 350 for Land Raiders are reasonable prices, given the above.

Another option, instead of changing the price, would be to change the stats. The weapon stats can't really be changed as the models are already produced so that leaves the speed (the Vindicator being the slowest non-walking unit in the army has already been discussed) and the CC and FF stats. Something has always bugged me about those stats, particularly the FF. The Preds and Land Raiders have approximately the same firepower as a Leman Russ, just less range and versatility. Increasing these units FF to 4+ would be a massive help to the units, especially in an army so reliant on assults.

As far as the Vindicator is concerned I think that FF 3+ might be too much for it. Reducing the cost to 250 might be a better option as the reduced cost might make it viable as a cheaper option.

Finally the landspeeders, the basic landspeeders are really nice considering they can add much needed MW attacks to the army. The Typhoon and Tornado however are not only more expensive but don't have the MW attacks. I think that these units could do with an increase in their FF to 4+ as well.

^2

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: LandRaiders

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:01 am

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London

Try air dropping those tanks using a landing craft......

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Legion 4

Post subject: LandRaiders

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:58 pm

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36949
Location: Ohio - USA

Like Russians did with BMDs ...

Would have to include "drop fails" rule ... :;):

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Killed by Death

Post subject: LandRaiders

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:42 pm

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Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:47 pm
Posts: 387

What about lowering the points cost and increasing the formation size a bit?

Say 5 land rainders for 400 pts?

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: LandRaiders

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:58 pm

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London

Well, I'd like to see the land raider formation get the upgrade 'landraiders' you can make it bigger or smaller as your heart desires!

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