Update on bionics! I've discussed this with some playtesters via PM, but not outlined the current direction in this thread yet, so here we go.

IH players want bionics, it's iconic. However, the old special rule was 1) too powerful and 2) an unnecessary unique speical rule where there are other simpler ways to implement bionics.

Currect bionics suggestion to be playtested is to implement bionics as a formation upgrade to the Iron Hands Clan formation.



25pt may well to too cheap, it could either be made more expensive, OR given a limit, such as 0–2 per army.

Q&A:
Why isn't it an option for assault marines?
To incentivise the selection of Iron Hands Clan mech infantry (IH utilise a lot of mech inf)

Why don't these bionics give invulnerable, like in 40k?
This follows the route of the Death Guard list, where infantry with parts of the body replaced by daemonic slime get 3+, not an inv. 3+ offers a slightly higher chance to save vs regular, but no protection in vs. TK/MW, similar effect but fewer rolls, and im not sure bionics should protect much against volcano cannons … it's not like being shot in the leg by a melta

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these look good! I think it's a wise choice about making that a Clan only upgrade. Price will sort itself out with playtesting

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hi guys another battle testing +3 for iron hands tac and dev

anyways here you go

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=30269

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Trent

fair point, far more powerful was an overstatement on my part, edited. 3+ has a slightly higher chance to save than 4+ inv against regular attacks, but offers no protection vs. MW/TK.

What's the fluff reason behind death coy and ravenwing getting invuln? is it just space magic? Death Guard demoic/augmented flesh seems a closer parallel to follow in terms of tissue replacement.

The 3+ inv characters is a good point, however it is also thematic. It might be assumed that characters would be the most bionic heavy marines in the chapter (with the (possibly heretical) dream of becoming fully bionic or intered in dreadnoughts). Unless 3+ inv chars are shown to be over powered in a list already lacking terminators, I think this works with the fluff.

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I agree with you that the destructors/annihilators have different respective values, but the list is following NetEA pricing which does not recognise this (maybe this could be tweaked in the list if needed, not sure if netEA allows it?).

Hadn't thought of a vehicle specific char or double hunters, will keep it in mind. Plan to get a vassal test in with these but i've not been in a great position for playing games over the summer.

thanks for the insights

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Hi all

here are some report’s doing drop pod this is based in a campaign style

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=30378

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=30408

first match is normal toury style while the second one is a strike mission.

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Trent

Is the IH lists finalized or still ongoing for testing?

Looking at it I see where the op was going and its there or there abouts fluff wise. I do think though terminators should be a detachment, maybe limited to just one detachment or half detachment giving two terminator units who can be upgraded with drop pods, dreads, land raiders etc?

Still very much in testing.
(I don't think there would be too many massive balance concerns, but there is not the testing or build experimentation to back that view up.)

Hadn't though about a smaller size terminator formation. At two stands i think it would be better as an upgrade to another formation rather than a formation of its own. However, I'm not sure that would really fit with the IH fluff from 3rd/4th ed era (when this list is based)?

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Battle report up

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=31215

Necrons (NetEA Tournament Pack 2013) and Thousand Sons (6.0.2)...

Enjoy..Sorry pile in with other reports...

P.s..PFE100 has started a spread sheet tracking want force we use when testing the IH

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Trent

5 games with Iron hands on weekend at tournament which allowed experimental lists at a penalty

I went 0-5 (5 losses) but had a heap of fun and my opponents liked the Iron Hands list, I was out activated on nearly all occasions.. expected with only 8 activations.

Played - Marines, Marines, Steel Legion, Eldar, Marines

Results
3-1 Loss
3-2 Loss
3-0 Loss
4-0 Loss
2-0 Loss

The lIst I took...

Clan Formation
+3 Land Raiders
+ Hunter
+ Bionics

Dread formation 1
+1 Dread
+2 Iron Clad upgrades
+1 Ven Dread
+ Supreme Commander
Drop pods

Dread formation 2
+1 Dread
+2 Iron Clad upgrades
+1 Ven Dread
Drop pods

Dread formation 3
+1 Dread
+2 Iron Clad upgrades
+1 Ven Dread
Drop Pods

Scouts
+Razorback

Strike Cruiser

Predator Formations
+1 Pred
+1 Hunter

Reaver Titan (Fire Support Config 3 x Apoc Launchers)

I'm a newb player so please take my observations with a grain of salt....list has a few obvious rookie errors, like putting SC in drop pod....

Bionics is good (unsure if costed appropriately yet) and adds that bit of survivability of the Clan formations... 3+ save on AP is nice... opponents felt it wasn't too overpowered, but maybe rethink points cost. The Clan was my BTS and took quite a bit of a beating to take down....

Dreads are heaps of fun... love dropping them down behind enemy lines and onto objectives...Deathwind makes it very cool... They can take alot of firepower, the mixed saves are handy...great in Close combat.

I feel they need more options...though is 0-2 Iron Clad restriction needed?? Duno, the IC are great though offering good option in CC and FF.

I'd like to hear of other peoples experiences with the dread formations, how do they use them??

Anyways

Thanks

Deez

Thanks for the detailed feedback, especially on bionics pricing.


From the list you posted I think there has been confusion on the dreadnought/IC upgrade 'Add up to 2 of the following in any combination:' means you can only have max 2 upgrades from all of +dread +IC on a formation. You've added 1 dread and 2 IC for a total of 3 upgrades, should be 2 max.

On the more IC though – yes that might be changed. I don't think the number of IC that can be added should go up, but the number of stock dreads that can be upgraded could. At present the maximum formation size is 7 (if you go all out on points) which is large enough for dreads – but a higher proportion within the 7 could be IC.

List wise: I would take slightly fewer formation upgrades and take more separate formations (loseing some land raiders and sliming down 1 of the podding formations down will gain you a entire activation). I would also aim to air assault with 1 or 2 dread formations. Dreads are worse than terminators *but* 150pt cheaper – MW marine air assault at 200pt, might as well exploit it.
(that said I realise some of this is cross-meta difference – air assault seems less common in australia, although the amount of flack looks to be the same in the lists, so ymmv!)

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ooh and extra question on dread use – did you pod all 3 dread formations in all games? and which turn did you drop in?

I also wonder if in addition to a bionics price bump, there might need to be a formation surcharge on podding dreads.

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i've just updated the list pdf to correct the razorback/LR pricing. seems id corrected my file before but never uploaded it.

If you could take more IC dreads in a formation the price on the upgrade would probably have to go up … or poke the stats a bit …

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