And this has an twin assault cannon so...

all in all it doesn't need a stat change most likely. They're pretty balanced both ways and any crossing the streams for NetEA vs EUK isn't really going to make a load of diff.

(though I still think most LR are slightly over priced but that's an entirely different can of worms aka topic, there )

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You seem irked. I do not stifle discussion. It's not my job. If a majority want something changed I listen to all points of view. We're still in discussion. If you're annoyed by this, please jump out of the discussion Mike.

That said, it seems the general feeling is starting to lean towards status quo and that's the simplest option by far, of course....

I agree with Mike here (perhaps a little less abrasively...)

Making decisions on a consensus on a unit statistic other than through statistical means is sub optimal, 100 people saying 2+2=5 still doesn't make it so....

I conducted a little experiment this morning, I rolled some dice.....

I rolled in groups of 4 to try and keep experimental conditions consistent, and I alternated collecting data to attempt to apply any external influence evenly

I rolled 8 dice needing 4+ to hit and 12 dice needing 5+ to hit, I did this 60 times each (I was going for 100, but the lure of a bacon sandwich and cup of tea halted that)

I recorded each total and took the average, the set of 12 dice needing 5+ gave an average roll of 4.133 hits, the set of 8 needing 4+ gave an average of 3.583 hits

this discrepancy can probably be attributed to a combination of human error in recording the data as well as punching the numbers into my calculator....

the reason 3x5+ is simply better however, is in the non-average results, a result of 7 hits came up 5 times more often in the 3x5+ group as it did in the 2x4+ group, we also had a single result of 9 hits in the 3x5+ group which is completely impossible in the 2x4+ group, there were also twice as many results of 6 in the 3x5+ group as there were in the 2x4+ group

on the flipside, there were 5 times as many instances of a single hit being scored in the 2x4+ group as there were in the 3x5+ group

hope this helps

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Give that man another bacon sarnie. I think he'll need it after wearing out his dice rolling arm

OK, so have we flogged this horse enough...?

Just so I'm clear, do people understand I let discussions go on because often good points come up in those discussions - for good or bad? If I just close things down interesting points can often go unmentioned and then there'd be no point in these forums IMO. Equally, voicing bad ideas gets us somewhere too, even if some don't like a lengthy debate it helps me arrive at a conclusion.

A little OT but I disagree with this, I find Land Raiders at 75 to be very good when used well. In my last couple of games I used a 3k army with 7 Land Raiders (formation, plus 2 Tacticals with 1 Land Raider and Devestators with 1 Land Raider) and won both, without taking that much in losses. With the infantry they stay at the front for shooting and assaults to cut down on damage.

I'm in favor of keeping the current 5+*3.

I think the difference is so small that it's a waste of effort to change them.

+1