Hi everyone, this is my first attempt at my own list and would like some feedback from the more experienced list writers out their.

I have wanted to do a Raptor army for some time in 40k but never got round to it. After reading Deliverance Lost I was inspired to try putting together a list for Epic which would have the feel of the Raptors doctrine.

The idea is to represent the raptors way of war using the Codex Astartes as a guide while allowing for force selection to suit the mission and include their ability to use Guerrilla attacks and local forces.

I have also wondered about adding in formations that are now used in Apocalypse but have left these out for now. Statistics for units are to be added but would represent the accepted stats in the NETEA compendium allowing for a wider selection of weapons for instance tactical squads being able to select missile launcher, plasma cannon or multi melta.



Well hope you like it and look forward to seeing your thoughts


Thanks

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Epic TOEG mostly done
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Mate,

Your list looks fun, I like your ambush rule. Have you played with it at all?

Cheers
Aaron

No I haven't had a chance to play with it yet. Had a bit of a disaster with the supports of my table, will get a game in this weekend hopefully after structural repairs

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Epic TOEG mostly done
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that does look interesting.

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My shifting projects

My thoughts:

I think some focus would be a good thing here - for Raptors operating without ambushes and such, the normal SM list would work fine (as might the Apocrypha of Skaros ). Thus, generally I'd get rid of some of the stuff that doesn't fit with that (like Land Raiders).

I'd either remove the 0-1 limitation on Assault units or remove the unit. They take up more space than they're worth, otherwise.

Bikes and Land Raiders both seem like they'd have serious trouble with jungle warfare (as do Whirlwinds, but they don't move as much). I'd remove the Land Raider upgrade for the same reasons, and would think about removing the Predators (but the rugged and replacable Rhino chassis probably matters a bit less if it gets wrecked in a jungle somewhere, so they make a certain degree of sense).

Why include the Land Raider Helios? And why add the Lightnings?

I'd also make the Raptor Ambush available to more formations. Maybe one per 1500 points? That way it scales, and there's more ambushing. This is a good thing.

Another point worth considering might be creating Raptors versions of Predators and Rhinos - i.e. ones with Dozer Blades. They could have the Vindicator's "reroll difficult terrain tests" ability. Makes their inclusion a bit more practical.

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Agreed. This is everything and the kitchen sink list atm. Focus on the special forces ambush storyline. That ambush rule is pure triple good platinum. Build up from there. For inspiration I'd go read up on some of the actions "The Men in Green Faces" undertook in the vietnam conflict. Seems a perfect start for inspiration.


A good thing to remind people is that the name of the list (if chapter specific) is not a requirement for what you field. I sometimes like to roll out my BA now and then with rapiers and spuds and whatnot under the IF list. Meaning that if you want to play an armor heavy game with your Raptors you still can collect all that goodness.


Super heavies should be out. I believe to keep the SpecOps feel (SAS / SEALS) I'd balance with cheaper / more flexible air assault or other special units (like demo charges on assault marines). A giant tank you can hear from miles away doesn't fit.


Perhaps they should get some type of mortar or artillery spotter unit similar to the wrath of god detachment rules? More focus on skimmers as well (perhaps that's just because I watched RotJ yesterday though )


Thunderbolts or lightnings. Pick one, IMO.


^ this ^


YES

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Indeed. The two together...very, very frightening.

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Going to reverse my feeling on airpower. Remove titan support and replace with mad airpower. If you can't have a giant tank, a huge walking robot doesn't fit either. Thinking of SK's "frightening" comment and made me rethink this. It's full of flavor (it's unique among astartes IIRC) and might help them deal with big baddies and swarms (again that vietnam feel with airpower/artillery shields against the human wave NVA/VC attacks). Balance with lack of super heavies and no titans might be justified. What's your feel on that SK?

Maybe some form of air drop ala Warhawks might be able to be fit in as well?

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Huge walking robots can work specifically because they're huge and walking. Though I think Warlords and Reavers might be excessive.

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Ha! Love it.

Might be an A/B option? You can take the biggies but then you lack more flexibility on airpower/artillery? OTOH that might just make this vanilla Astartes at that point.

Just confirmed that got my pointy eared guardian heavy friend to come on Sunday and try this list out and see what happens.

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-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!

thanks for the guidance here its really appreciated



what about the following changes

remove all marauders,titans and fighters

this would push them into only being available through the local force point allocation and would not be a standard operational unit

Ambushing units

pushed up to 1 per 1500pts but required to have stormraven support to represent insertion vehicles and to allow the commander to pull forces out

Armoured Vehicles

The raptors use the codex astartes as their organisational template and vary the force organisation based on the mission, how about anything but light vehicles having to start in reserve to represent the main force approaching the battle site and allowing any thunderhawk transports to start landed in deployment zone with any carried vehicles

Assault squads

I will pull these from the list as raptors prefer ranged combat

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should have some reflection on this fluff in the list. Cheaper or larger scout formations and wide range and flexibility of land speeders. Might be overkill but it'd be awesome if they had teleport to represent pop up ambushes (enemy titan? not any more!)

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General idea: the Catachan Veterans' Booby Traps ability might have some application in this list.

Garben


I'd say just get rid of the local forces and the Lightnings, honestly.



Dunno that that's necessary - if a commander wants to do that, he'll do that. If he doesn't, then he probably has a decent tactical reason for it.



This feels complicated, and not in the good way.

jimmyzimms

Cheaper formations to represent frequency (or more expensive formations to represent rarity) is a bad, bad, bad idea. You either make things excessively good or excessively bad.

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My Trade Thread

Agree with SK. Focus on creating a list for an ambushing force, and not for the Raptors chapter.

If the Raptors are using their armoured vehicles, they use the Codex Astartes. When they use their own special tactics and doctrine, they use the Raptors list.

Thanks for all the advice here, really has got me thinking.

Im Going to pull apart the list I posted and put up a new version shortly.

I really want to see the list represent the way the Raptors fight drawing from the information out their about them. The information below seems to sum up how they should operate using their doctrines quted information drawn from 40k wiki ald lexicanum

"the Raptors make extensive use of their scouts dispersed throughout their taskforces, and maintain a sizable contingent of Land Speeders of all types as well as a core of diverse armoured vehicles."

Thnking about giving planetfall units dropping within close range of scouts no scatter like the locator beacon works in 40k for scout bikers, I still feel that armoured vehicles should be available to the list and with a range of options

"They prefer to employ these assets, along with their assault units, in precision strikes to overwhelm an enemy at a strategically crucial junctures in battle after determining the most effective pressure point at which to break the enemy."

Thinking about armoured vehicles inclusion, this to me would be using transporters dropping armour into the heart of battle

"actively embrace unorthodox tactics and actively seek unique solutions such as warzone specific camouflage patterns, infiltration, complex manoeuvre, guerrilla warfare and the use of ad hoc scratch units to fulfill particular missions. "

Again I think the list should be more diverse than ambush and light units

"Throughout the Raptors' recorded history, they have been shown to share close cooperation with other Imperial and even local militia forces, and where they have considered it strategically expedient, the assumption of direct command over them on an impromptu basis"

The inclusion of local forces option would add flavour tin keeping with the fluff and allow the force to be tailored towards the battle which again is in keeping with the raptors style of fighting

"The Raptors maintain a high degree of flexibility in their deployments and structures, and in battle favour hit-and-run tactics over all else"

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Epic TOEG mostly done
Terrain log
1/25 dark future