Actually IIRC ATSKNF was genetically bred into them with the power of the Emperor's psychic abilities so when they turned, they lost his "light" hence no more ATSKNF.

Oh? Where's that from?

_________________
The Apocrypha of Skaros 1.1
Rogue Trader Expedition 0.4
The Horus Heresy 0.5
Night Lords 0.1
My Trade Thread

Ooh, reference?

_________________
Tom Webb
Author Page: http://www.newtonwebb.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/thewebb
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/thenewtonwebb
Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/thenewtonwebb

More likley they found the truth instead of being blinded by the light

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

I think it might be in one of the HH novels i've read and I may be paraphrasing though... It could be the one where they go into the history of the genetic birth chamber with Horus, I'm not 100% sure.

I thought it was a representation of the way fear was literally bred out of Space Marines. Corruption and less adequate production has tainted latter day Chaos Marines.

Back in the day though they were both equally elite and dedicated. Some of the rebels didn't know anything about Chaos and certainly in the Heresy books I've read didn't suddenly 'power down'.

I'm still favour all heresy marines having ATSKNF.

_________________
Tom Webb
Author Page: http://www.newtonwebb.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/thewebb
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/thenewtonwebb
Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/thenewtonwebb

I daresay ATSKNF is a trait of all Marines - let's face it, they were all as gung-ho as each other in how fearless they all were, however I do like the idea of a consolidation of the Chapters after the Heresy as a representation of ATSKNF and the loss of leadership for the Chaos Marines (black Legion in this case) as to the reason why they do not have this.

So no ATSKNF for this list from this little FB if it can be helped. I would rather see massed trooops than specialised smaller teams (due to cost increases) - I can get that in a standard Marine list.

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

Not having it encourages larger formations (and makes them easier to balance) and means that a Heresy list facing off against a modern list will have more Marines - which feels appropriate, I think. Plus, it helps represent the apparent superiority of Codex tactics.

Having it means that we show just how far modern Chaos Marines have fallen.

While I definitely like the last aspect, I think the first two are more important. I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to ATSKNF-lite, but straight-out ATSKNF has too many liabilities.

_________________
The Apocrypha of Skaros 1.1
Rogue Trader Expedition 0.4
The Horus Heresy 0.5
Night Lords 0.1
My Trade Thread

Maybe just the suppression/breaking part of ATSKNF? That seems in character for Pre-heresy Marines, who lack the manic zeal that reduces casualties in a failed assault?

Right. Defenders of Humanity: the Special Rule (because that's what comes before "and they shall know no fear". Get it? Alternate options include "Bulwark against the Terror" and "They are My Space Marines").

Looking at the individual bits of ATSKNF, I'd say something like:

• It takes two Blast markers to suppress a Space Marine unit or kill a unit in a
broken formation (ignore any left over Blast markers).
• Halve the number of extra hits suffered by a Space Marine formation that loses an assault, rounding down in favour of the Space
Marines.
• Space Marine units with the Leader special ability remove 2 Blast markers
instead of 1.

Would work OK. Thoughts on it? I think it'll make the army break normally, but when it's broken it'll handle itself better, and it'll bounce back slightly quicker. And it'll be harder to suppress.

_________________
The Apocrypha of Skaros 1.1
Rogue Trader Expedition 0.4
The Horus Heresy 0.5
Night Lords 0.1
My Trade Thread

I think it should be called: And They Shall Know a Little Fear (ATSKLF)

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

I like it - heresy marines understood the value of retreating for tactical / strategic purposes (most of them) and this reflects that.

_________________
Tom Webb
Author Page: http://www.newtonwebb.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/thewebb
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/thenewtonwebb
Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/thenewtonwebb

Good. The hope is that it's not something that's too overpowering in larger formations while still being good. So the cost should be pretty easy to apply generally.

I hope.

Anyway - I'm going to wait for a bit more feedback before I update the document, but I expect I'll do that next week.

_________________
The Apocrypha of Skaros 1.1
Rogue Trader Expedition 0.4
The Horus Heresy 0.5
Night Lords 0.1
My Trade Thread

The main thing I like about it is that all legions get it. History is written by the victors and only giving loyalists ATSKNF is a bias judgement call.

_________________
Tom Webb
Author Page: http://www.newtonwebb.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/thewebb
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/thenewtonwebb
Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/thenewtonwebb