Yeah lets reboot here guys. GlynG's correct and there's too much thread necro and conversation on this topic actually occurring on more than a single thread. IH needs to be taken off the discussion here as we need to worry about getting the baseline correct. A list specific variant is another topic and well, we have list threads for those. Getting this right will reduce needs and pressure for other lists to go off the reservation.

This is the current starting point to discuss:

Storm Talon Fighter 200 points for 2
Aircraft; Fighter 5+ n/a n/a
Twin Assault Cannon :- 15cm AP4+/AT4+/AA5+ Forward Arc
Twin Heavy Bolter :-15cm AP4+/AA5+ FFx

A TS Gunship is best served as a separate unit if someone cares to need it. Vulture, Vulture Slicks, and Vulture Punishers all come to mind as existing precedent. That's neither here nor there for the current topic.

Now...Go!

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Glyn, nobody said this was going to be the final stats.... It's not even locked in a list right now. How about trying it and perhaps seeing how either weapon type works for the unit...? We have to start somewhere.

Why does everybody get their knickers in a twist about stats on a unit barely off the drawing board? It's like believing a first draft army list is to be used in a tournament.

Playtest it so we have more data and examples of play. Then we can decide what weapons it can carry for the future.

I'm just objecting to the Storm Talon having an optional weapon upgrade, as this is a no no from precedent and not a good direction to playtest.

I plan on playtesting it soon.

Just for note: I include variant weapons options so that listd esigners can pick one loadout ans stick with it. Inno way i would suggest that the same unit should have upgradeable stats in the same list.

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And FWIW I would suggest playtesting with both options and at both costs, in order to determine the optimum. I understand Glyn's criticism, so if it is deemed necessary to have two types, simply give them different names and costs

Well lets try and focus on the fighter version first but the gunship would be

Storm Talon Gunship 250 points for 2
Aircraft; Fighter 5+ n/a n/a
Twin Assault Cannon :- 15cm AP4+/AT4+/AA5+ Forward Arc
Typhoon Missile Launcher:- 30cm AP4+/AT5+ Forward Arc

This ^^ is only posted for completeness

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Taking a squadron of each type would be a good way to go perhaps....?

*sigh* Or it would be better you taking an executive decision for one secondary weapon Dobbsy and us all playtesting that rather than splitting the not much playtesting going on? If that playtests fine then great we're done and only if there's a problem that can't be fixed by adjusting the points slightly might we consider trying the other.

The 40k unit is called the 'Storm Talon Gunship'. There's no justification for there being separate 'fighter' and 'gunship' versions in epic. As far as I know no existing variant list uses a variant weapons fit of a core aircraft and there's no need for two different versions or IH to have a separate version of the Storm Talon from anyone else.

It's not like IH are even one of the chapters it's background states use a lot of Storm Talons (these being the Raven Guard, Hawk Lords and White Scars). It would be best if one version is agreed on and Jimmy tested and used it in the IH list just the same as other lists.

OK Glyn, here's my "executive decision."

People can play what they want to. If someone wants to playtest the fighter or the gunship they can.

If Jimmy wants to focus the IH with the AA fighter only, he can. If he wants to try the gunship, he can.

If you want to stick with the Fighter for whatever reason, you can. You might find you'll need a ground attack aircraft instead- who knows?!

If anyone else is considering using either of the ST for their own lists they can.

There's absolutely no reason why both versions can't be trialled as people wish. It's still an experimental aircraft. Play what you want. Why should we block someone who wants a specific version simply because someone else thinks it's not "justified" to have both versions, when there's good evidence of conflicting "fluff"?

I've been looking at the stats recently. Why does the Stormtalon only have 15cm range for it's weapons again? Aren't we doing this wrong?

Fighters in other armies mostly have the same range on their guns as those guns have on ground units - this is true with the Thunderbolt, Nightwing, DE Raven, ect. The Ork Fighta-Bommer has less with 15cm 'eavy shootas but it has all round fire rather than a fire arc and AA weapons in epic with this normally have -15cm range.

Having two 30cm range guns would be a boost sure, but the Stormtalon is expensive at 100 points and I've found it a bit underwhelming in my games so far.

For comparison Epic-UK have otherwise adopted the stats and cost we're using for the Stormtalon, but have made both it's weapons 30cm range.

How have the rest of you found them? Could we go with regular 30cm range like with other fighters and Epic-UK?

The 15cm range is a combination of deliberate attempts to reduce power creep or the fear thereof (go re-read the thread, it was pretty contentious) and the fact that there's established ranges for some of the AA.
More the latter than the former in regards to the win Heavy Bolters are long established as 15cm AA5+.
There was plenty of nashing of teeth around the assault cannons having 30cm so they started with a nerf.

Having played a dozen or so games with them in the IH I can say that they are lack luster as is IMHO and I support the Assault cannons having 30cm range, same as the stormravens, and have intended them to be as such in the version of IH.

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I'm not really feeling up to reading back through it all but thanks for reminding me. I think 30cm range on at least the Assault Cannon would be good and changing that but leaving the Heavy Bolters 15cm could be a good compromise.

I don't see that it really matters if there's already a 15cm defensive assault cannon on the Marauder. A Stormtalon mounts the gun quite differently, is a higher tech-level craft, with a super-human pilot, likely much better targeting systems, ect all of which could account it having greater range.

It would be good to get Dobbsy to have a look and make a call on it before changing anything, but I think it's just me and you that have lists including the Stormtalon so far and with both of us thinking it could do with a boost hopefully we can adjust it.

As the aircraft is really still in it's infancy in any list, feel free to trial a 30cm AC. I can't see it breaking the aircraft or a list. If people can please give more feedback about it in BatReps however that would be nice too.