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Stormwolf and Stormfang stats?

 Post subject: Stormwolf and Stormfang stats?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:40 pm 
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Do we have Stormwolf and Stormfang stats or enven some approximations thereof?


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 Post subject: Re: Stormwolf and Stormfang stats?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:16 pm 
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We discussed here http://taccmd.tacticalwargames.net/view ... 5&start=57
though IlBertuz never ran with it.

I someone can give me the 40k stats I'm happy to put it together for friendly play.

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 Post subject: Re: Stormwolf and Stormfang stats?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:30 pm 
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Thanks for the offer jimmyzimms, though I ended up doing my own out of curiosity. Here goes:

Name Type Speed Armour CC FF DC PF TC Cost Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Stormwolf Fighter 5+ 6+ 4+ - - 3 100 Twin Hellfrost Cannon 30cm MW5+ Reinforced Armour, Disrupt
Twin Lascannon 45cm AT4+/AA4+ Fixed Forward
2xTwin Heavy Bolter 30cm AP4+/AA5+ Side Arces
or 2xTwin Multi-melta 15cm MW4+ and Small Arms Side Arces
or Twin Skyhammer Missiles (Firefury) 45cm 2BP (1BP) Fixed Forward, One-Shot

Stormfang Gunship Fighter 5+ 6+ 4+ - - 1 100 Hellfrost Destructor 30cm MW4+ Reinforced Armour, Titan-Killer (1), Disrupt, Fixed Forward
2xStormstrike Missiles (Hunter-killer) 120cm AT2+ Forward Arc, One-Shot
or Twin Lascannon 45cm AT4+/AA4+ Fixed Forward
2xTwin Heavy Bolter 30cm AP4+/AA5+ Side Arces
or 2xTwin Multi-melta 15cm MW4+ and Small Arms Side Arces
or Twin Skyhammer Missiles (Firefury) 45cm 2BP (1BP) Fixed Forward, One-Shot

I based them on the stats on GW page and 40k wikia. Toughts, suggestions? I tried to balance them based on some other flyer profiles that I have made in the past like Caestus Assault Ram and Storm Eagle Gunship. They have not been tested yet and are primarily made for my personal use.


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 Post subject: Re: Stormwolf and Stormfang stats?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:24 pm 
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What are the 40K stats for comparison?


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 Post subject: Re: Stormwolf and Stormfang stats?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:25 pm 
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There's more akin to Assault Rams than Storm Talons so I'd honestly suggest Skimmers not AC.

They're a wee bit OTT for Epic as well (40k is basically a giant case of power creep) so using the stats without modification, taking every possible weapon and making it a separate shooting attack, and lastly including options for EVERY possible weapon configuration is generally discouraged. I'd suggest taking the iconic load out and starting there.

I'm not going to cover this one here but AA is also bound up with a set of conventions that shorten ranges as a starting point for obvious reasons.

Let's look at the Stormfang first. It's pretty obvious the Helfrost cannon is iconic so let's have that included. I mean if you're not bringing that, then why bother? AMIRITE or AMIRITE? :D However flying uber TK shooty flyers like this are pretty much silly talk. I mean even the most advanced race in 40k, Necrons, don't have something this powerful and even then, it's been a bitch to not be complete poppycock in EA for the Experimental Newcrons list.

Now we've got an option for some one-off support missiles, an up close MM attack, or the heavy bolters for use. So choosing between them it's important to figure out the "typical" reason and tactics of this unit in play. That is, why does this exist in the larger FoC of the Space Wolves (and not amazingly some successors again as of the new Primaris! >:D ) It's obvious that we can see that the major role this plays in a puppies is a heavy support vehicle even if happens to be built from pure solid handwavium and one shot insta-gibs entire fleets of helldrakes in dogfights while pumping out The Trooper by Iron Maiden at max decibels... So with that in mind, it's pretty obvious when coupled with the existing Approved Space Wolves list we're talking skimmer that wants to lay down some hurt while allowing those big groups of hairy brutes to get into assault range. While we've fine to use any of those above secondary weapons some are better than the others.

The MM are nice weapons but short range and better suited for the complementary transport unit, the Stormwolf, which wants to be an assault transport and wreck face. Likewise the missiles are good but come with extra book keeping and are more of a Opportunity Fire style weapon and don't actually bring an ability the puppies need really. So that being said I'd pick the Lascannon over the others as AT fire is a bit more important for Marines. BTW good choice on it being considered twin linked and FxF.

We could add in the additional bolters but then you're going to need a pretty good price tag for all that. Going the other way, I'd make them instead small arms and bump the FF of the unit, after all they're really there for killing things that get up and close vs the type of long range sustained shooting epic ranged attacks represent from the "real world", as much as that can be said about a game that involves chainsaw swords and hulk smash gloves being primary weapons! We can argue the same in tactical application of the missiles in that they'd probably pop one or two off in a game of 40k which as we all know represents an Epic Assault.

All that being said I'd honestly suggest this instead

Stormfang Gunship AV 30cm
F:5+,C:6+,A:4+

Hellfrost Destructor 30cm MW4+, Disrupt, FxF
Twin Lascannon 45cm AT4+, FxF
Bolters, (small arms) EA+1
Reinforced Armour, Skimmer

Now if you want to ignore all the above, groovy too. But in the stats in your post, that's a unit at least...350 points probably more EACH. It's effectively one shots EVERY.SINGLE.NON-WE.FLYER.IN.EA 50% of the time (more on intercept at 66%) so yeah... that's a wee bit much. Plus the over abundance of too long ranged AA coupled with the great ground attack so... :)
EDIT: I misread there being AA on the big cannon so ignore

So considering how valuable MW and disrupt are for an assault-centric marine army like wolves, with their above avg sized core formations with free commanders I'd suggest something like formations of 2 at ... 350?

If you want planetfall then add...25 points each?

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 Post subject: Re: Stormwolf and Stormfang stats?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:01 pm 
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So Stormwolf...

This one's a bit easier as it has a point to compare against the gunship version.
So in this case we know we probably want the MM and again, good FF because even though it could be used in a pinch for some long range fire, that's not it's tactical doctrine in practice. It's job is to get Space Puppies into the enemies face ASAP and bring some hurt along to boot. So let's do this

Stormwolf Assault Boat AV 30cm
F:5+,C:6+,A:4+

Twin Hellfrost Cannon 30cm AT5+/AP5+ Disrupt
Multimelta array 15cm MW4+ and Small Arms (EA+1)
Transport 2 Terminators or 3 Power Armour units, RA, Skimmer

150 points each (that's a MONSTER assault unit)

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 Post subject: Re: Stormwolf and Stormfang stats?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:45 pm 
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Those were some good points, to be clear I never planned for it to be compatible with the current Space Wolves list, just checked that it wasn't there and made my own (on an empty stomach). I found a decent 3D-model online and began fixing it up for printing and decided that I needed a profile for it too. I only have a Black Templars loyalist marine army so I would be using it semi-blasphemously with them anyway.
I always include all the various weapons configurations just for the hell of it and then end up using the generic vanilla options anyway ;D
You are right in that it's directly from the GW's power bloat profile unmodified, I plan to use it as a base until it gets fine tuned. I literally copy pasted stuff from other flyers of mine. It's something of a prealpha release.
I wanted the two variants to be different enough to warrant making two different models, so the first one would be more of a transport and the other a gunboat, at least for me. Still not that different from Storm Eagle/Fire Raptor.
I actually had them down as skimmers for my self, just figured most people use stuff like that as real flyers.
The titan killer might be a bit much I admit, but I wanted it to be different enough from the other one and as my army doesn't use any Venators, Fellblades or Glaives two of those flyers don't feel op in it.
I usually figure the price of the units based on similar units that exist and have a price (at least my own) and adjust it in to what I or my friends would be willing to pay for it in a in house game, this could radically differ from what it's army list tournament legal price should be.


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 Post subject: Re: Stormwolf and Stormfang stats?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:26 pm 
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Well to be fair pretty much ANY marine list would be happy to have those in them ;D

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 Post subject: Re: Stormwolf and Stormfang stats?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:35 pm 
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I posted some WIP pictures of my models to be on my other main post, just in case you guys are interested ;)
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=28882&p=613966#p613966


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