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C'tan critical hit question
ragnarok
 Post subject: C'tan critical hit question
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 11:52 am 
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After reading the  C'tan critical hit I'm a bit confused, okay I'm very confused.

It says that if it suffers a critical hit then all units within 3D6cm take a MW hit.

The bit that confuses me is that it doesn't have a two hit value.  Does this mean that the hit is auto and any unit within the blast radius without an Inv save or RA is destroyed?

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Ilushia
 Post subject: C'tan critical hit question
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 2:43 pm 
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That would indeed be the way I read it. C'tan are star-gods. Crit would represent a weapon which cracks/destroys part of their living metal bodies. The result is a rapidly expanding cloud of super-charged plasma spilling across the battlefield consuming everything in it's path. The other thing is that with the way the C'tan operate (usually alone, and almost always very close to the enemy) if you do get critted on there's a good chance you'll take a chunk of the enemy army with you when you explode. This is more or less so the way they're designed in normal 40K as well. When they die, they explode and hit everything nearby with a hit which denies saves. So, it's sortof a gamble. If they get critted while fighting the enemy you lose them, but the enemy likely loses a chunk of their army. If they get critted while near your units, you lose them and potentially lose quite a number of your own units.
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Ilushia
 Post subject: C'tan critical hit question
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 8:19 pm 
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Another interesting question is, do you roll for crit on the hit that kills the war engine or not? For most War Engines this doesn't matter much. Titans just have a chance to take more damage (Needless), and most others are similar. The Necron war-engines all have criticals which will actually inflict damage on things other then themselves. A few other units also have these, Chaos Greater Daemons for instance. It'd be nice to know what the order of operations here is.
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corey3750
 Post subject: C'tan critical hit question
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 11:15 pm 
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Every hit requires a critical roll.

So even if you kill it, it can still explode and take some of it's killers with it... or some of it's friends.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: C'tan critical hit question
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 5:11 am 
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For future reference, referring to "hits" is confusing.  "Points of damage" is a better term.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: C'tan critical hit question
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 9:16 am 
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Quote (corey3750 @ 14 May 2006 (23:15))
Every hit requires a critical roll.

So even if you kill it, it can still explode and take some of it's killers with it... or some of it's friends.

would this include overkill points of damage.  For example if you screw up your saves (or if a roll noramlly) and suffer 8 points of damage.  The first three will kill it, but do you roll 8 dice to see if it goes BOOM!

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nealhunt
 Post subject: C'tan critical hit question
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 3:29 pm 
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The first three will kill it, but do you roll 8 dice to see if it goes BOOM!


You roll for each point of damage, regardless of the source.

If you hit a Shadowsword with 5 points of TK damage, you roll 5 times.  If your gargant takes a point of damage from a fire in the end phase, you roll for that point of damage to cause a critical.  If you fail a dangerous terrain check and take a point of damage, you roll for critical damage.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: C'tan critical hit question
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 6:12 pm 
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Thanks NH.  Now I know not to over shoot a C'tan if I ever play against one.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: C'tan critical hit question
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 3:25 am 
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Or just deathstrike it when its still on its own base line.

Incientally I reckon I have forgotten to take more crit rolls than I have taken whilst played Epic A!

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Ilushia
 Post subject: C'tan critical hit question
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 6:15 am 
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This has the ironic side-effect of making it a GOOD thing to throw one of these dudes down and charge him head-long into the middle of an enemy's most costly formation. Especially the Nightbringer. He'll make a mess out of everything around him, and if they manage to kill him (Or over-kill him) then there's a fairly good chance he'll blow up and kill even more of them! Sounds like a sweet deal to me  :laugh: This is especially fun to do to the enemy's Supreme Commander in most armies. And given how tough the C'tan are there's a fairly good chance that they'll beat the enemy up and still live through it.
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Hojyn
 Post subject: C'tan critical hit question
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 6:27 am 
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Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 16 May 2006 (03:25))
Or just deathstrike it when its still on its own base line.

Except that C'tan can teleport, so...  :alien:
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corey3750
 Post subject: C'tan critical hit question
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 2:14 am 
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Actually, you want to destroy C'tan at range.

Letting them get close to you is a very bad idea if you can help it at all.

Yes, if the Nightbringer gets up into a formation, he will most likely eat it for a mid-day snack.  But then he's death incarnate, so that's only to be expected.

The C'Tan exploding is never a "good" thing for the necron (as they've lost their supreme commander), but if one happens to do so while in the midst of an enemy it's simply not as bad, because you are at least likely to take something with you.

Of course, on the other side of the equation, if he happens to be near, or amongst your OWN units, it's not simply bad, it can be catastrophic.

So really, the severity of the C'tan crit is situational.

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Ilushia
 Post subject: C'tan critical hit question
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 2:22 am 
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I'd agree with that. I just find it rather amusing. this is true in 40K as well, where in they also detonate. And while losing one sucks (costs you a good 1/5th of your army or worse usually), it's not uncommon to see them take several squads down with them. Same kinda deal here. You lose a lot of points, and your Supreme Commander, but with a little luck you'll take a fair bit of the enemy down with you. They look fairly cool, and if I had the time (and money) to build a Necron army I'd totally field Nightbringer.
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