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NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.1 [Developmental]

 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 0.5 [Experimental]
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 12:59 pm 
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Portals: Not sure what the other lists have, but just make it so they cant go back in, just come out.

Sentry Pylons: While I didn’t run them, Obelisks didn’t do much for me either before crumbling to dust.

Aeonic Orb: I really thing it either needs a more accurate MW single shot, or the blasts need to be MW hits. It felt highly un effective in my game and I think for what it does, 600 points is way too much. That needs changes if anything.

Triarch Praetorians: Maybe these should be changed to the Lychguard? 3+ armor pr 4+ rerollable? CC of 3+ FF of 5+ They are basically the necron terminators. I know the army is a FF army, but it helps their CC and fits with the “Newcrons” better I think.

Doomsday/Barges: Hmmm Id go for that. 5 of them, and the 60cm range is fine. I would still never take any of the barges and just take 5 Doomsday Arks.

Tomb Blades: I may have found something that would work. If I don’t get ahold of you or forget, PM me.

Warriors Mounted: Replace Doomsday Arks with Triarch Stalkers. To me it just really doesent fit to have Doomsdays with em. Barges are good though. Might see them used, If a proxy is made…*lightbulb*

I would keep the Barges with the immortals. Makes them more appealing.

Obelisks: They felt so weak, I dunno. I’d pay more for better armor or range (though I think anyone would say that about anything)

Pylons: Good but hmmm, something felt off. Maybe like they should be a unit. I dunno, just spitting ideas out off the top of my head.

Necron rule in regroup: It feels really un effective. Maybe im just not getting it. I like the Marshal Action to regroup, that makes sense on getting guys back and/or removing blast markers. In regroup if you do it with a broken/unbroken formation, I can’t see necron rule being used. Can you give me an example so I can understand? For a broken and unbroken in regroup phase.


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 0.5 [Experimental]
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 2:54 pm 
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Portals: The original list has it so you can leave the board through a portal and go back into reserves. You can then if the unit is broken rally off the board and come back on during subsequent activations. It pretty much makes your infantry untouchable and gives you a huge advantage since your opponent doesn't get the chance to wipe them out before they rally. This is a large issue with the original approved Scarab conflict list for opponents.

Obelisks: 5+ RA is pretty good as far as armour goes its better than marine tank armour. Don't think I can reasonably do anything about this. You need a good mix of cheaper (weaker) units to make sure you can keep your activation count up. As you play more you'll see how important a higher activation count is for controlling the board. This is the major draw back for titan lists.

Aeonic Orb: Don't forget that 12BP gives the formation it targets 3 blast markers just for aiming at them which is a lot! Even just one kill can break a unit of 5 (except Marines) not to mention using 3 templates you can sometimes hit multiple formations and spread the pain, as each formation the templates cover, kills or no kills would take at least 3 BMs. If it had MW, with a sustained shot it you'd simply wipe the unit out. You'd outright kill most infanty on a 4+, no armour... it would literally be one of the most powerful weapons in the game. The only thing I can think of even close to that would be on the Mega Gargant (1050pts) with 10 BP MW at 60cm.

Triarch Praetorians: Unfortunately giving them RA (reinforced armour) could never happen. That would be unbelievably resilient as they have the Necron rule and fearless, you'd never kill them! Maybe even the 3+ I suggested is too much. I'll run the 3+ CC/Sv by my group and see what they think but I don't think its reasonable to do both.

Doomsday/Barges: I planned on testing the Doomsdays at 60cm so that good. I don't know about your assessment on the Annihilation barges, I will definitely be giving them a try. 5 shots at 60cm is nice but 15 shots at 30cm certainly can do a good amount of damage as well. They move reasonably quickly so its not like they can't get into range. Keeping the barges upgrade on the immortals doesn't really make sense because then they are stuck walking a measly 15cm around the board and can't portal. Would kinda defeat the point of taking a FF specialized infantry if you can't get it into assault range.

Tomb Blades:
Quote:
I may have found something that would work. If I don’t get ahold of you or forget, PM me.
Done and Done!

Warriors Mounted: As for the stalkers they are AV units but they have walker so they can go through portals, just made more sense to me to only keep them with the portal specialized formations as they aren't quite a fast as the Arcs and would slow them down a bit. Though I haven't tried adding them to a mounted warrior formation yet, but I can see how it would be appealing to provide some MW to the formation and the fact that they have infiltrate as well could be very handy. Yeah I agree that putting the doomsday upgrade on mounted warrior formation might be too much.

Quote:
Pylons: Good but hmmm, something felt off. Maybe like they should be a unit. I dunno, just spitting ideas out off the top of my head.

Not quite sure what you mean. Though I know people have problems with them. Some Necron players love them (like me) and some hate them. They are incredibly easy to break especially if you take a BM from teleporting which is a huge down side. But I love them because they have such a huge intimidation factor as they have huge range and a AA TK shot! I've taken down more than a few thunderhawks with a full compliment inside... there's not much that is more satisfying.

Quote:
Necron rule in regroup: It feels really un effective. Maybe im just not getting it. I like the Marshal Action to regroup, that makes sense on getting guys back and/or removing blast markers. In regroup if you do it with a broken/unbroken formation, I can’t see necron rule being used. Can you give me an example so I can understand? For a broken and unbroken in regroup phase
sure not a problem:

Unbroken formations: So if you do a Marshal action you can either move or shoot (with a -1) and then regroup (also don't forget that you get a +1 to your marshal actions due to Implacable advance special rule). The Necron rule allows you to remove blast markers and/or regenerate units up to the full strength of the formation (for units with Necron ability only) to a total of the number rolled on the highest of the two dice. This is amazing because if your unit is near dead you can move the formation through a portal (if needed) regenerate a bunch of units and BAM engagement support to crush something with the retain.
In the end phase when rallying unbroken formations you get an automatic one unit with the "necron" ability regenerated to each formation that's not entirely destroyed (up to the original size of the formation). Then you remove half the blast markers rounded up and remove additional BMs after for each unit with leader. Remember in the end phase rallying your formations isn't the same as regrouping and you can't regenerate units instead of removing BMs.
Broken formations: They can only Rally in the end phase, they can't Marshal and Regroup as broken units can't take activations. So they get their automatic one guy (with necron ability) back and then if they pass the rally test they remove blast markers but don't regenerate units. If they fail then you can make another withdraw move but they remain broken for the subsequent turn. You can move them through any unused portal if you like with their withdraw move (if they are in range) to get them to a better position if possible.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 0.5 [Experimental]
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 3:31 pm 
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So as a recap:

Portals: Come out, cant go back
Oblisks: Keep the same
Aeonic Orb: Same (Really needs a point drop though but for the weapon I understand what your saying)
Praetorians: CC 3+ suggested
Doomsday: Test 60cm range, make the formation 5 of Doom and or 5 Barges total.
Tomb Blades: Sent PM!
Pylons: If 2 were a unit, it would least need 4 blasts to break. Maybe can add a 3rd to unit for 150 points?
NEcron Ability: Understand. I missed the free guy returns. Makes 100% sense now. Just with portal change they dont go in heal, come back out safe, which is good cause thats over powered to keep going in and out.


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 0.5 [Experimental]
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 3:40 pm 
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Yes, Though with the portals you can use them to jump between two previously unused portals on the board just not leave the board through them.

Having more than one Pylon to a formation gets tricky. Its been tried in the past and I'm not sure it was that popular compared to 2 individual ones. The formation would be 350pts at least not that that's bad but you have to remember in a formation together they would suffer in different ways. They would still be subject to being suppressed by BMs, 2 BMs and you can't fire one of them. They would be stuck quite close together and would have to shoot the same target when activating. It would make them a little tougher to break but you are loosing a whole activation not the mention the advantage of having two individual pylons far apart being able to get cross fire, being able cover the whole board with AA and forcing your opponent to spilt is force up (which Necrons love!) to attack them.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 0.5 [Experimental]
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 3:47 pm 
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One thing that I like in other Necron lists (missing from this one) is formations of only Obelisks. They have a 30cm move, but are coupled with the slow Monolith, so unless you get 'lucky' with casualties you won't get much use from their speed.

I mostly like Pylons, my only dislike is their poor to-hit roll for normal shooting (not AA). I still intend to run some though.

I agree that MW on the Orb's blast is too much, but I also feel that the blast as-is doesn't mean much (for 600pts). Maybe it's just my experience of facing Marines a lot? Ignores cover could be an option for increasing it's power without breaking it, though I think as-is with the portal is probably fine.

The above is purely theoretical still- no Necrons here yet


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 0.5 [Experimental]
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 4:04 pm 
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Geep wrote:
One thing that I like in other Necron lists (missing from this one) is formations of only Obelisks. They have a 30cm move, but are coupled with the slow Monolith, so unless you get 'lucky' with casualties you won't get much use from their speed.

I mostly like Pylons, my only dislike is their poor to-hit roll for normal shooting (not AA). I still intend to run some though.

I agree that MW on the Orb's blast is too much, but I also feel that the blast as-is doesn't mean much (for 600pts). Maybe it's just my experience of facing Marines a lot? Ignores cover could be an option for increasing it's power without breaking it, though I think as-is with the portal is probably fine.

The above is purely theoretical still- no Necrons here yet


You have a great point with the Obelisks I usually forget about them as they are tucked away with the Monoliths like you mentioned. I think that they should join the Indicium Maniple and you can take any 5 of the three different (Doomsday, Obelisk, Annihilation Barge) units in any combination for 250pts. I'll keep the Monolith Maniple as is though.

Their roll to hit is pretty good. I know its a 4+ but they are immobile, they will usually be doing a sustained fire action which makes it a 3+. Maybe some times going on Overwatch, but its still pretty decent. lol, I know I curse like crazy when they miss too, but they are a very well tested unit and are very unlikely to have a stats change.

I'm mostly focused on getting the new units to balanced with the old. The old I want to keep the same as much as possible. We can do adjustments with the points and formation compositions but stats not so much.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 0.5 [Experimental]
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 6:16 pm 
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I am all for this: "Indicium Maniple and you can take any 5 of the three different (Doomsday, Obelisk, Annihilation Barge) units in any combination for 250pts."

Any points dropping from the big ol orb?


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 0.5 [Experimental]
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 7:16 pm 
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Quote:
Any points dropping from the big ol orb?

Unfortunately no, It performs quite well in my experience at the current cost. Its 750 points in the approved list so it has already come down considerably. Though I'm planning on bringing that down as well a bit.

Quote:
I am all for this: "Indicium Maniple and you can take any 5 of the three different (Doomsday, Obelisk, Annihilation Barge) units in any combination for 250pts."

This may be a little under costed at 250pts. I can see if this goes through it may be bumped up to 300pts. Give it a try and let me know.

Please encourage your opponents to post their thoughts also.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 0.5 [Experimental]
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 1:05 pm 
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New Battle Report up:
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=26977&p=562554#p562554

Played the Indicium Maniple with the composition adjustment at 250 pts. including 5 Doomsday Arks with 75cm range. They functioned well but weren't overly powerful, they certainly didn't do their points worth in damage but did provide some good firepower when needed.

The Abattoir was a monster, we played it at 650 points with infiltrator. It was scary and could eat anything without worry. First turn I put it right in the middle of the board. With a 55 cm reach for assault going into the second turn it ensured my opponent was forced into some less than optimal moves. I think its under costed at 650 points with the approved stats, even with the nerf to living metal with regards to TK attacks. Definitely going to separate the Harverster Engines into two separate list entries. After this game planning on keeping the Orb at 600 points and bumping the Abattoir up to 700 from the original proposed 650 points.

The sentry pylons were very ineffective at really everything. This is the third time I’ve used them and each time they proved extremely lack luster. Their AA is not great for the point investment, though it does have impressive reach. I’m going to go ahead and re-tool them to be all the same type, the two type requirement just makes them near useless. My opponent suggested that they all be exterminator cannons with the same stats minus Living Metal with a range reduction to 60cm at least. This doesn’t seem unreasonable.

Tried out all the units now a few times and am just finishing up the changes to the next list version. Am pretty pleased with how everything fits more or less. Going to run the list by the Xenos chair and some other regular players for some comments before releaseing it as NetEA Sautekh Legion V1.0 [Developmental]. This means for all you collectors that everything should more or less stay the same composition wise, though there will be some stats/points tweeking still to be done I'm sure. Then we can start pushing in the battle reports to apply for List approval. I need some feed back on how the list performs against a titan list and Eldar. I've mostly played against Marines, Orks, Guard and Tau. One of the guys in my group looks to be just finishing up an Eldar list and another a Gargant big Mob list so there should be some interesting reports to come.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 9:02 pm 
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Version 1.0 [developmental] added to original post with change log.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 11:54 pm 
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Looks good to me.
My only slight nitpick is that 'Ark' is the kind of boat things get transported in (Ghost Ark) and 'Arc' is a section of a circle.


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 12:09 am 
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Good catch. Was just an over sight that got copy/pasted in the list structure section only. Its fixed now.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 12:18 pm 
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Got in another game lastnight. Here was the list a friend used. I built it, and after actually building it in the army builder this morning it was illegal, but hopefully the opnions are not completly thrown out the door!

first lists then thoughts. Havent tried the new force org yet.

Incompertus, 3000 POINTS
Necron Sautekh Legion (0.5)
==================================================

WARRIOR PHALANX [400]
6 Sautekh Warrior unit, Necron Overlord, C'Tan Shard
WARRIOR PHALANX [300]
Necron Lord, 6 Sautekh Warrior unit, 2 Triarch Stalkers
IUDICIUM MANIPLE [250]
4 Doomsday Ark units
EQUES MANIPLE [300]
6 Heavy Destroyer
MONOLITH MANIPLE [325]
2 Monolith, 3 Obelisk
MONOLITH MANIPLE [325]
2 Monolith, 3 Obelisk
PYLON [200]
Pylon
WARBARQUES [300]
1 Warbarque
HARVESTER ENGINE [600]
Aeonic Orb

Chaos Squats
Infantry detachment, 4 Annihilators 4 transport
Infantry detachment, 4 Annihilators 4 transport
6 Sentinels of Hashvaht
6 Sentinels of Hashvaht
6 Engines of Hashvaht (4 T1/ 2 T2)
6 Engines of Hashvaht (4 T1/ 2 T2)
Kollossus with Zhar Sup Commander

I won int every turn, despite only be +1 strat rating over the crons. He kept his infantry back in the portal until the start of turn 4, which was suprising to me. Everything was pretty balanced out, though I think the chaos squats are a little to good, but no one really owns the list. Last update is 2011 I think.

Aeonic Orb almost one shotted my Kolossus first turn, putting 6 damage on it. I fired back only getting 3 damage. the whole battle was very tug of war. The most lackluster unit though was the MONOLITH MANIPLE. In the few games I had this always seems to be the case. Hard to really say what I feel is underwhelming but for me this is the unit.


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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 1:48 pm 
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Only a little illegal, 100 points over the 1/3 limit for War Engines. Though it was a friendly game and you made the list so its fine and regardless your thought are always encouraged and appreciated. Was the problem they were continually broken or that their ranged weapons were lackluster or they didn't lend much to assaults? I find that Monoliths can be hard to use effectively as they generally end up just being used solely for their portals and get broken before getting to contribute much themselves. Did the broken portal rule have much effect? For shooting they aren't the greatest even when combined with some Obelisks. But even a couple blast markers priming a target before you portal assault can make all the difference even though it doesn't seem like much. Though I'm generally pretty aggressive with my teleporting. I like to keep the pressure on my opponent and force him/her to make the moves I want so my other units can get into position to do maximum damage.
I suggest trying Night scythes, they are very versatile for their points and can drop portals where ever you need.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Sautekh Legion (Newcrons) 1.0 [Developmental]
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 5:25 pm 
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Hmmm. The always broken and weapons were meh. I know you mentioned not to compaire to other lists, but I think SM are a good base, as most things came from variations of SM. Land Raiders are very close so the Monolith stats, but a lot better in weapons for a little less points. And being SM, takes double to break em. Figure 4 Land raiders are 300pts, for 8 45cm range AT4+ shots and options for anti infantry.

Now the point is the monoliths can poop out your crons very close so they can FF. Where as the land raiders will usually just move 15cm at a time if it is holding troops.

Might try some teleport guys next time, and the new mantiable, such as one unit of 4 monoliths, and an oblisk mantiable.

Broken portal rule didnt come into effect much.


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