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Necron Tomb World list (Experimental)

 Post subject: Re: Necron Tomb World list
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:55 pm 
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FW Mini Pylons say what?? :eh

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 Post subject: Re: Necron Tomb World list
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:50 pm 
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The weapons are:

Focussed Death Ray is a Demolisher Cannon with bonus on vehicle damage table (due to AP1) which hits every unit in a 3D6" line drawn within range.
Heat Cannon is a 36" Multi-melta with +2 Strength, two shots and 3" Blast.
Gauss Exterminator ia 120" two shot Lascannon with AA ability.

It's T7 with W4 so i would say an Armorued Vehicle in Epic with a 4+ Save. Unit size is 1 - 3 Sentry Pylons. They are Fearless. Have the option of an upgrade which enables them to Deep Strike.

Also interesting for this list: Necron Tomb Citadel.
It is a terrain feature with two targetable parts. Each is as tough as a Monolith:
1. Tomb Ziggurat
Has an Eternity Gate the same as on the Monolith. And a Scarab Hive. You can dock either a Monolith or a Sentry Pylon atop the Ziggurat. This increases the Strengthof any attack by +1. The Monolith cannot use its Eternity Gate while docked.

2. Power Crucible
Give a 3+ Invulnerable Save to every Necron unit on the surface/docked on the Tomb Citadel. Re-rolls of 1 for Reanimation Protocols

The Tomb Citadel can be uorgaded with 2 Gun Emplacements which canbe either Tesla Destructors or Gauss Exterminators. All have AA abilities.

Canoptek Tomb Stalker
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Armoured Vehicle 20cm 4+ 4+ 4+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Gauss Flayers 15cm AP5+/AT6+

Notes: Fearless, First Strike, Infiltrators, Reinforced Armour, Scout, Teleport, Walker.

Canoptek Tomb Sentinel
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Armoured Vehicle 20cm 4+ 5+ 5+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Exile Cannon (Base Contact) Assault Weapon Macro Weapon

Notes: Fearless, First Strike, Infiltrators, Reinforced Armour, Scout, Teleport, Walker.

Canoptek Acanthrites
Type Speed Armour CloseCombat Firefight
Infantry 30cm 3+ 5+ 5+
Weapon Range Firepower Notes
Cutting Beam (Base Contact) Assault Weapon Macro Weapon

Notes: Fearless, Jump Packs

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 Post subject: Re: Necron Tomb World list
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:30 pm 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
FW Mini Pylons say what?? :eh


They're called Sentry Pylons, check forgeworld's website.

Thanks for the stats, BL!

Damn, that's some scary guns. I don't think they're usable for what I originally had in mind (giving ranged firepower to warrior phalanxes), but I can see them working as separate formations - the list could use both these and the Flail platforms.

Are the sentry pylons mobile? They got legs, so I'm thinking 10cm speed, walker? For a formation of 6 it would have to be something like 3-400 points maybe. Smaller than that they'll break quickly (like monolith formations do), but unlike monoliths they're not very dangerous while broken.


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 Post subject: Re: Necron Tomb World list
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:49 pm 
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Ulrik wrote:
jimmyzimms wrote:
FW Mini Pylons say what?? :eh


They're called Sentry Pylons, check forgeworld's website.


I'm aware of those but anything that's 6" tall isn't what I'd call mini, but of course it's all relative :D
thanks for clarifying; i wasn't sure if was missing something.

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 Post subject: Re: Necron Tomb World list
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:38 pm 
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Ulrik wrote:
jimmyzimms wrote:
FW Mini Pylons say what?? :eh


They're called Sentry Pylons, check forgeworld's website.

Thanks for the stats, BL!

Damn, that's some scary guns. I don't think they're usable for what I originally had in mind (giving ranged firepower to warrior phalanxes), but I can see them working as separate formations - the list could use both these and the Flail platforms.

Are the sentry pylons mobile? They got legs, so I'm thinking 10cm speed, walker? For a formation of 6 it would have to be something like 3-400 points maybe. Smaller than that they'll break quickly (like monolith formations do), but unlike monoliths they're not very dangerous while broken.


They move like every artillery pice in wh40k (= infantry speed). But as they have no crew they are automatically hit in close combat and can't strike back (and can't initate an assault also).
10cm speed (NO walker) seems ok. CC - and FF 5+ i guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Necron Tomb World list
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:56 pm 
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BlackLegion wrote:
They move like every artillery pice in wh40k (= infantry speed). But as they have no crew they are automatically hit in close combat and can't strike back (and can't initate an assault also).
10cm speed (NO walker) seems ok. CC - and FF 5+ i guess.


They got those spider legs, and artillery pieces are generally infantry in epic. These are big enough and tough enough to be AVs, so I figured they deserve walker (they can't be harder to move around than a tarantula!)

They're 6" big? If they hadn't been all arms and no hull they'd be pushing WE, but they are, so they should be AV. How big are regular pylons? I've never seen them except in epic scale :)


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 Post subject: Re: Necron Tomb World list
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:40 am 
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Ulrik wrote:
How big are regular pylons? I've never seen them except in epic scale :)


just measured mine, and come in at 11.5 inch tall and about 10 wide.

I think they should be able to me (abit slow) at 10 and be AV's. base squads of 6 with maybe some other possible upgrades would seem right. I think they should have walker too cus.. well... they are necrons, they probably can teleport around or some crazy shit.


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 Post subject: Re: Necron Tomb World list
PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:04 pm 
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Sentry Pylons are T7 W4 with 3+ Save and Living Metal.
For comparison a Carnifex ist T6 W4 with 3+ Save and clearly an AV in Epic with RA4+.

If Sentry Pylons are 6" big then they would be as tall as an Epic (metal version) Rhino is long.

You should note that regular artillery pieces in Wh40k are T7 W2 with a 3+ Save but also come with crew members. Are all the crew dead the gun becomes useless. This is where the Infantry status in Epic comes from.

The Sentry Pylon has no crew and doesn't need them thus i propose Armoured Vehicle Status with a 4+ Living Metal save. Walker is fine as they behave like any other artillery piece in Wh40k.

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 Post subject: Re: Necron Tomb World list
PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:55 am 
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Even more 4+ LM, Fearless units...won't be too popular with the opponents!

But looks like that stats work for playtesting. I'll put out an updated list next week, with both the Sentry pylons and the Particle Flail platforms.


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 Post subject: Re: Necron Tomb World list
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:14 am 
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First draft for stats, points and formation structure for Sentry Pylons, any comments very welcome:

Move/Armour/CC/FF/Notes
10cm/4+/-/5+/Living Metal, Fearless, Walker
Weapon/Range/Firepower/Notes
Choose one:
Gauss Exterminator/90cm/AT4+/AA4+/-
Heat Cannon/30cm/MW4+/-
Death Ray/(15cm)/small arms/Extra Attacks (+2), Macro Weapon

Formation:
Four Sentry Pylons with Death Rays for 200 points
May add two Sentry Pylons for 75 points (for both)
Any Sentry Pylon may be armed with Heat Cannons for +25 points each
Two Sentry Pylons may be armed with Gauss Exterminators +25 points each

Design notes: A weapon with 3D6" range can't be anything but small arms IMO. It's too short ranged to even be ranged 15cm. Even with EA +2, MW I think the pylons with actual ranged attacks will be better, so the Death Rays are the (cheaper) base unit. Maybe somebody will plonk down a 6 strong Death Ray formation on a critical objective and prove me wrong by annihilating anything that approaches, but I doubt it - 10cm is too slow.

36" range for Heat Cannons translate to 30cm. I'm considering upping it to 45cm for gameplay reasons, but want to try 30cm first. Is MW4+ too weak for the 40k stats? They've got a lot of extra over a regular multimelta, but I fear that two shots per pylon will be excessive.

Gauss Exterminators: I'm figuring that they're about on par with a twin-linked lascannon (only with twice the range). Maybe they should get -1 on AA value for AA mount?

edit: Heat Cannon compares poorly to Gauss Exterminator, even at 45cm range. Should I buff Heat Cannon or nerf the Exterminator?


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 Post subject: Re: Necron Tomb World list
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:22 pm 
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Sorry i should have spelled it out clearer: The Focussed Death Ray has a range of 24" (= same as a Demolisher cannon) within this range you draw the 3D6" line. Anything under this line is hit with S10 Ap1.
The Death Ray of the Doom Scythe aircraft is the same but has only 12" range.

Regarding the Heat Cannon: In my WhES every shot with a 3" template generates one shot in Epic. 2x 30cm MW4+ would represent the Heat Cannon if using the WhES quite well.

The Gauss Extermninator would be 120cm AT5+/AA5+

In the new Forgeworld Apocalypse book there is now a formation called "Necron Pylon Network". It consists of 1+ Gauss Pylon (that's the new name of the big one) and 0-5 Sentry Pylons.

IIRC something has changed: The Gauss Pylon now gives every Necron squad within 12" a 5+ Invulnerable Save.

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 Post subject: Re: Necron Tomb World list
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:58 pm 
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Hmm, new stats then:

Death Ray/15cm/2x AP3+/AT3+/-
AND/(15cm)/(small arms)/EA+2

Heat Cannon/30cm/2x MW5+/-

Why is the Gauss Exterminator only AT5+? I thought it was a lascannon with two shots?

With these stats I'm thinking same cost for all weapons - that is, formation of 4 for 300 pts, 2 extra for 125 pts, choose between Heat Cannon and Death Ray, and up to two Gauss Exterminators.


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 Post subject: Re: Necron Tomb World list
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:29 pm 
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In my system a weapon needs either a 3" template or 3 shots to grant a shot in Epic. So it needs 6 Wh40k shots to grant 2 shots in Epic.

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 Post subject: Re: Necron Tomb World list
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:40 pm 
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BlackLegion wrote:
In my system a weapon needs either a 3" template or 3 shots to grant a shot in Epic. So it needs 6 Wh40k shots to grant 2 shots in Epic.


Yeah, but I figured that the extra shot on the Exterminator was worth a +1 to hit?


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 Post subject: Re: Necron Tomb World list
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:32 am 
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Just a few quick thoughts on what you guys got so far,
-I think you should lower the range of the gauss exterminator to maybe 90, 120 for some thing that's half the size of the pylon doesn't make any sense. in terms of shots probably go with 1 shot - AT4/AA5.
- In terms of Armor this is another thing where I think it should be lowered to 5+ living metal. the reason is 100% cus there really is TOO MUCH 4+ RA as is. I know its stats should maybe give it a 4+, but if you do go that way then only RA instead of living metal.
-In terms of points and unit organization - Im almost thinking it would be easier to start with a squad of either all deathray or all heat cannon with the option to upgrade some to gauss exterm. too much mix and match I think will cus this unit to be too many points or too few points very easily.
-any one come up with stats/ idea for the tomb complex? I ordered one with the IA:12 book the other day from FW and really want to see it in epic. hell even if its not im making a mini one for a objective or some thing! lol.
-o and though I see your logic with the 40k to epic shots conversion equation, I don't think it works as easy as that and weapons need individual assessment when determining shots. Necrons are a shinning example of this with rules like tessla that totally throw that equation out the window.
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