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Macro-weapons

 Post subject: Macro-weapons
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:08 pm 
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I'm embarassed but i have a question regarding Macro-weapong hit allocation.

In Assaults it is clear: You allocate regular hits, remove casualties, then allocate MW hits and remove casualties.

But does it work the same with regular shooting too? Or do you shoot regular weapons and MW weapons together and the opponent allocates the hits?

If you have a unit with BP and MW-BP and it would shoot both weapons do you combine alle the BP and thus loose MW? Or do you work out the results of the BP attack and then the results of the MW-BP attack?

I`m confused because under 2.2.6 Macro-weapons the order of the effects is: Shooting Attack, Barrages, Assaults and THEN Allocating Hits.
And the Allocating Hits part says:
Quote:
Allocating Hits: If an attacking formation scores hits both with normal weapons and weapons with the macro- weapon ability, then the opposing player must allocate and make any saves for the normal hits first, and then allocate and make any saves for the macro-weapon hits. Hits from macro-weapons can only be applied to units that are in a position to be hit by a macro-weapon.


Emphasis mine. Is the attacking formation the assaulting formation or the shooting formation or both?

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 Post subject: Re: Macro-weapons
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:11 pm 
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shooting is exactly the same as assaults, allocate non-MW hits, make saves, remove casualties, then allocate MW hits, make saves (if any) remove casualties, this means MW hits can hit units a second time (if they saved the regular hit)

if you have MW barrage and non-MW barrage weapons you can either fire both and lose the MW ability (in the same way as mixed arty companies lose disrupt when firing manticores with basilisks) or just fire the MW barrage at the reduced BP level, you're not allowed to fire two separate barrages

I would say common sense would say the attacking formation applies to shooting, FF and combat

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 Post subject: Re: Macro-weapons
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:21 pm 
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Why would i be forced to loose MW if i fire a non-MW and a MW Barrage if MW attacks are allocated after non-MW attacks?

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 Post subject: Re: Macro-weapons
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:39 pm 
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I'm trying to find the reference to it, but when firing a barrage, you add up all of the BP from the unit and they fire together, unless every unit in the formation has the MW ability (or IC or disrupt or any other shooting rule) then the barrage does not have it (this stops players adding 2 manticores to an arty company and getting a 9BP disrupt barrage every turn for example)

in the barrage rules it specifically states

"The whole formation fires at once, so the number of Barrage points for each weapon that is in range and has a line of fire is added together. When you have worked out the total number of barrage points refer to the barrage table below. Note that a formation may only fire one barrage per turn – a single formation may not fire separate barrages at different targets."

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 Post subject: Re: Macro-weapons
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:44 pm 
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from the specialist units and weapons section, paragraph 3:

"Sometimes situations will occur where some units have a special ability and others do not, raising the question of whether the ability may be used. For example, some units in a formation may be able to fire a barrage that ignores cover or has the macro-weapon effect, while other weapons taking part in the barrage do not. If such a situation occurs in a battle then you may only use the ability if all of the units taking part can use it – so the barrage would only ignore cover or count as a macro-weapon if all of the units participating in the barrage had these abilities."

certainly you can interpret it as the unit having the ability, but if that it the case, why label the units weapons separately? why not just give all the barrage weapons MW?

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 Post subject: Re: Macro-weapons
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:05 pm 
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kyussinchains wrote:
I'm trying to find the reference to it, but when firing a barrage, you add up all of the BP from the unit and they fire together, unless every unit in the formation has the MW ability (or IC or disrupt or any other shooting rule) then the barrage does not have it (this stops players adding 2 manticores to an arty company and getting a 9BP disrupt barrage every turn for example)

in the barrage rules it specifically states

"The whole formation fires at once, so the number of Barrage points for each weapon that is in range and has a line of fire is added together. When you have worked out the total number of barrage points refer to the barrage table below. Note that a formation may only fire one barrage per turn – a single formation may not fire separate barrages at different targets."


Reads as if the last sentence only prohibits spilting fire between two formations. But this isn't allowed anyway with shooting. The last part is uneccessary and confusing.

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 Post subject: Re: Macro-weapons
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:23 pm 
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unneccessary perhaps, I never found it confusing at all, saying you can't do something that is prohibited by the rules already isn't that confusing... surely?

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 Post subject: Re: Macro-weapons
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:35 pm 
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BlackLegion wrote:
Why would i be forced to loose MW if i fire a non-MW and a MW Barrage if MW attacks are allocated after non-MW attacks?


I think I see what may be confusing, all attacks are made before any hits are allocated (unless rules state otherwise as in first strike in an engagement).
It's the same when firing a barrage, all attacks are done before allocating hits so players aren't allowed to fire a normal barrage, allocate hits, and then fire a MW barrage.


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 Post subject: Re: Macro-weapons
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:43 pm 
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BlackLegion wrote:
kyussinchains wrote:
I'm trying to find the reference to it, but when firing a barrage, you add up all of the BP from the unit and they fire together, unless every unit in the formation has the MW ability (or IC or disrupt or any other shooting rule) then the barrage does not have it (this stops players adding 2 manticores to an arty company and getting a 9BP disrupt barrage every turn for example)

in the barrage rules it specifically states

"The whole formation fires at once, so the number of Barrage points for each weapon that is in range and has a line of fire is added together. When you have worked out the total number of barrage points refer to the barrage table below. Note that a formation may only fire one barrage per turn – a single formation may not fire separate barrages at different targets."


Reads as if the last sentence only prohibits spilting fire between two formations. But this isn't allowed anyway with shooting. The last part is uneccessary and confusing.


I see the last sentence as a confirmation of the rules and it helps new players who seem to find the Barrage rules a little harder to understand.
Even with it there I've known new players in the past asking if they can split their barrages onto 2 targets.


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