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Robots are a soldiers best friend

 Post subject: Robots are a soldiers best friend
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 3:01 pm 
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(CyberShadow @ May 16 2007,13:10)
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Sometimes you get neuropsych patients whose sadness circuits are destroyed by a brain lesions and they can tend to do some pretty 'inconsiderate' things.  'No worries' sounds better than it actually is...


Yes. I have done a lot of work with kids with Autism, which is fascinating and a little disturbing.

Yeah robot rights will happen, simply because we are really just robots ourselves, and there won't be 'robots and us' in any case... rather degrees of graduation where it will be impossible to tell where human ends and robot starts.


Oh boy. Lets not open the 'brain/mind' can just yet!  :p  We could go right back to Descartes for that!

Then we hit the 'Uncanny Valley':

http://www.biganimation.com/magazin....oneid=3
I'm neuroscience and neuropsychology - just because our brain wires are made of meat doesn't mean they get magical properties  :;):   Descartes 'Cartesian Dualism' died a death a long time ago, except perhaps in the eyes of the general public in some countries. Mind is just the physical brain working and no serious brain scientist believes otherwise these days.  Seen too many patients and case studies to believe differently...

Interesting link. I'd say that 'uncanny valley phenomena' also happens in response to many psychiatric conditions where things just don't seem quite right (unfortunately for the patients). It's like an aversion to sickness or 'the other' in co-specifics (members of same species) which was no doubt selected for in our history.  I'd guess that our long co-evolution with domesticated animals (especially the dog which is one of the most ancient associations) helps explain why we can adapt to non-human pals so easily on the otherside of that valley. That's my completely untested off the cuff theory anyway!  :laugh:

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 Post subject: Robots are a soldiers best friend
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 4:03 pm 
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(vanvlak @ May 16 2007,06:49)
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And some day, when AI delivers on a scale which is still remote (or is it? CS?), I believe we will be having great big problems with robots' rights issues

If you believe Ray Kurzweil, about 2020 for computers to surpass the human brain in complexity/capability.

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 Post subject: Robots are a soldiers best friend
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 5:55 pm 
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Aha - robot rights are dawning. Interesting.
And the Uncanny Valley link is great - thanks CS.
A variation on the theme: R2-D2 and C-3P0. Although the latter is far more human in appearance, I dare say the former is more popular, probably due to its character and its speech. So in this case character, or personality, would outweigh appearance, wouldn't it?

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 Post subject: Robots are a soldiers best friend
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:06 pm 
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woahh... this is getting a little bit Ghost in the shell in here.. :blues: , its intresting to see the response of the officer involved...

maybe this is why the imperium dont use AI's... to stop the enginseers from crying  :laugh:

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 Post subject: Robots are a soldiers best friend
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:18 pm 
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(NOVAGUARD @ May 16 2007,20:06)
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maybe this is why the imperium dont use AI's... to stop the enginseers from crying  :laugh:

Exactly!  :D  :D  :D

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 Post subject: Robots are a soldiers best friend
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 11:42 pm 
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(zap123 @ May 16 2007,15:03)
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(vanvlak @ May 16 2007,06:49)
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And some day, when AI delivers on a scale which is still remote (or is it? CS?), I believe we will be having great big problems with robots' rights issues

If you believe Ray Kurzweil, about 2020 for computers to surpass the human brain in complexity/capability.

2027 I think the date is, and 2035 for singularity.  Find it hard to believe but then I think most people would.

Word is Ray Kurzweil is releasing a docudrama movie 2008  so I imagine that will cause a stir. His book 'The Singularity is Near' is an interesting read

Videos from the recent Singularity summit at Standford are here:

http://www.singinst.org/media/

Scroll down for Kurzweil's. Also available on YouTube.

Funnily enough one of my latest texts on psychotherapy talks about the coming practice challenges when human level and beyond AI arrives, with reference to Kurzweil. Shrinks for robots, is that what an Enginseer is V?  :D  Based on assumption that easiest way to produce something smart might be to just copy a reverse engineered human brain.

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 Post subject: Robots are a soldiers best friend
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:12 am 
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(vanvlak @ May 15 2007,00:08)
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Call me daft, but I sympathise with the colonel. It's a small step away from using an animal (and in the future, that step will be shorter still), and another small step away from using a human considered to be expendable. There are simpler and better and cheaper ways to get rid of mines.

Before the job at the engineering firm I have now I actually spent the last few years working for a company that provided unexploded ordnance disposal, land mine remediation and chemical weapons safety consulting services.

We were actually bidding on a Canadian government de-mining contract in Afghanistan but in the end the government decided to fund local de-mining ops on the theory that even if 90% of the allocated money was lost to graft you'd still see more real results hiring Afghans than Westerners.

To put things in perspective one of our techs would pull around $10,000 USD per month where an Afghani with a similar amount of experience would pull bout $200 USD per month. Which in relative terms is probably comparable to the Canadian salary but...

Not to mention that in absolute terms and Afghan is cheaper to replace than a $150,000 USD robot after an explosion. And that unfortunately is a very real concern in countries where land mines have been heavily seeded.

Not very polite to admit but none the less a working truth.

And as far as the animals go I believe that at least one country is using Tanzanian Rats as land mine sniffers

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3123119.stm

Really the cheapest method is still plain old fashioned human clearance once the field is identified.

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 Post subject: Robots are a soldiers best friend
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 4:31 am 
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Well a few points ... my Epic forces use robots, they never should have been removed from Epic.  What's Sci-fi without Robots/Droids ?! ??? E/W has some excellent Khazari Droids and DRM has a whole army of Toasters !  More and more robots are being used by the Military. I don't think it will ever become like BSG with whole units of AIs. And I don't know if they will be used as weapons platfrom ? On Maksim's 6mm SFWG site, I've had a long discussion with an engineering student, IIRC. And it appears to him and others based on his research, etc., that GEVs will never be used as in Hammer's Slammers. And the same goes for Grav-tanks. However, robotic walkers are being worked on and may eventually be wide spread ... And GEV/Grav; the tech and other things, are not just there to make them viable.  So combat walkers have a bigger chance of being on the battlefield then GEV MBTs !?  And as far as AI emotions, it's a familiar theme in many Star Trek(all iterations) episodes. It's an interesting paradigm.   From a military stand point anytime you can limit the risk of your troopers lives and limbs - Is a good thing. But I can see the LTC's reaction ... I've medevaced some one who stepped on a mine ... it's a bad thing ...

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 Post subject: Robots are a soldiers best friend
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 7:57 am 
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(vanvlak @ May 15 2007,08:08)
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Call me daft, but I sympathise with the colonel.

I second that, because I believe it's only the first step on the way to the robot uprisings as predicted by Messrs Cameron, Wachowski, etc etc.

Science supports this view, take for example this quote from the esteemed Professor Frink:

"Don't you know that elementary Chaos theory tells us that all robots will eventually tuns on their masters in violence , with the biting and the hurting, nng-hey nng-hey"


The only possible solution to this which can avoid this disaster:  C/S's bowling ball solution.  Plus, you can turn it in to a sport and sell the rights to TV.  Everyone's a winner!

:;):  :p  :laugh:  :D

P.S.  MY apologies if anyone detected a slightly humourous tone in this response to this subject.  I can't promise I wouldn't do it again  :devil:


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 Post subject: Robots are a soldiers best friend
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 3:10 pm 
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Watching a ST/TNG, right now about whether Cdr Data is just a machine or ? ??? ? And my Epic Forces, have 4 Maniples (old fluff) of metal Robots, 4 Maniples of Plastic. And I have 10 E/W Droids and 5 Kamakazi Drones and with be orderering more with the E/W Droid Warhost soon ... :D ?Not to mention all my F/W 6mm Tau Drones, and my entire DRM Andriod Army ... :alien: ? Once we as humans give a Machine a name, and interact with it we personify "it" ... and with that may come unexpected results ! :) ?Frankly I like to play a 6mm Sci-fi game with Cdr. Data (if he were real !?). He'd take DRM Andriods and I ... IG or if they existed, 6mm Slammers - now that would be a game ! :laugh:




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 Post subject: Robots are a soldiers best friend
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 7:24 am 
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Quadreped bot with some impressive ability to stay upright (getting kicked, going over mud snow etc). :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v....search=

Israeli Dragonfly MAV:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v....search=

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 Post subject: Robots are a soldiers best friend
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 3:39 am 
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Interesting links ! :D

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 Post subject: Robots are a soldiers best friend
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:56 am 
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You know, there's a US combat engineer vehicle (can't remember the nomenclature off the top of my at the moment) that clears a path in a much more efficient manner.  It fires a rocket that trails det-cord behind it.  The rocket lands on the other side of the mine and the engineer blow the det-cord, thereby clearing a path through the field.  This is an example of an unnecessary expenditure for a high-tech solution when a workable lower tech one exists.  Really I think the area that needs further R&D is remote mine detection.  Finding it before you get close enough for it to blow your leg off.

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 Post subject: Robots are a soldiers best friend
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:02 am 
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ACE or CEV ?

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