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WWII Infantry
CyberShadow
 Post subject: WWII Infantry
PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 9:21 pm 
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Looking back, I have regained an interest in WWII wargaming, Mein Panzer. Some armour is on the way to me, and I am looking to add infantry to it.

However, I know very little about it all. I am interested in getting Heroics and Ross infantry to battle Stalingrad and El Alamein. So, I have two sets of questions:

1. Can someone point me to references for the infantry squad types and composition for these two battles, for the Germans and Soviets (Stalingrad) and Germans and UK (El Alamein). I am really just interested in the most common, core infantry squads at this stage.

As far as I understand it, the Rifle Squad was core, consisting of nine guys with rifles and a LMG. Is this correct?

2. The H&R web site is now almost unusable if you want to actually buy stuff. If you can find the packs that you need (assuming that you know what the various names actually are), there are no pictures of what you get. So, does anyone know what the H&R infantry packs contain?

If anyone is also able to recommend a number of packs and what squads they will actually build, that would be very useful as well.

Many thanks.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: WWII Infantry
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:37 am 
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I'm not sure of a site, but  AH's ASL and supplements would give you a good idea.   All my references are still in storage ...   Generally speaking you are correct, an Infantry squad is 9-11 troops with a LMG ...  I'll see what I can find with what I have on hand, but I don't know if it would be compatible with what  H&R sells ?

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: WWII Infantry
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:55 pm 
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Thanks. Perhaps I should formalise my questions better.

1. What are the basic infantry platoon types for the Germans and Russians in Stalingrad, and the Germans and British at El Alamein?

2. Given these four infantry platoon types, what types of infantry squad made them up (including any platoon command squads)?

3. What, specifically, does each infantry squad consist of (eg nine rifle guys and a LMG)?

4. What do they Heroics and Ross infantry packs consist of?

5. If I wanted to create an infantry platoon for each of the four forces above, what packs should I buy and what minis in the packs are used?

Thanks.

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tchristney
 Post subject: WWII Infantry
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:51 pm 
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You'll probably have better luck asking the same question on TMP. I think there are people waiting all day for questions like these to answer.  :;):
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Legion 4
 Post subject: WWII Infantry
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:05 am 
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Got my AH SL and Tobruk games out of storage today ... I might be able to give you a more exact answer.  But generally a platoon would be made up of 3-4 squads of Infantry, a Cmd Section or squad and maybe a weapons section or squad, ie. MGs or a few other heavy weapons ... But I'll give you more accurate intell shortly ... :D

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Markconz
 Post subject: WWII Infantry
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:10 am 
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(CyberShadow @ Sep. 16 2006,20:21)
QUOTE
2. The H&R web site is now almost unusable if you want to actually buy stuff. If you can find the packs that you need (assuming that you know what the various names actually are), there are no pictures of what you get. So, does anyone know what the H&R infantry packs contain?

This sort of crap from numerous historical figure manufacturers really annoys me.

How hard can it be to stick up a few pics of what you are selling?? It's ridiculous.  :angry:

These companies deserve to die out.

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Mojarn Piett
 Post subject: WWII Infantry
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:57 pm 
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(CyberShadow @ Sep. 17 2006,18:55)
QUOTE
Thanks. Perhaps I should formalise my questions better.

1. What are the basic infantry platoon types for the Germans and Russians in Stalingrad, and the Germans and British at El Alamein?

2. Given these four infantry platoon types, what types of infantry squad made them up (including any platoon command squads)?

3. What, specifically, does each infantry squad consist of (eg nine rifle guys and a LMG)?

4. What do they Heroics and Ross infantry packs consist of?

5. If I wanted to create an infantry platoon for each of the four forces above, what packs should I buy and what minis in the packs are used?

Thanks.

I confess I'm not an expert but here's some basic info.

AFAIK there were two types of infantry platoons for Germans & British unless you count man portable mortars, one if you don't cont MG platoons. Soviets did have entire platoons armed with SMGs.

In WWII the "workhorse" was the rifle platoon with three to four squads and a command squad/team. A rifle squad did ideed consist of rifles and a SSW, which was usually a LMG. Later in the war there were squads with two LMGs. Squad leader could have a SMG.

MG (or "heavy") platoons containing MMG/HMG were usually divided to support the infatry platoons of the company with one MG squad attached to each platoon being the most common way.

In Stalingrad platoons were quickly heavily depleted so you could have platoons of any strength.

In Alamein the Germans would most likely be understrength while British would be at full strength having recently been refitted/resupplied.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: WWII Infantry
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:18 pm 
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O.K., took longer than I would have liked but I wanted to be accurate ... and most of my references were in storage (ie. AH's Torbruk, PanzerLeader/Blitz, SL, etc.) ... ?Much of it I had remembered but I was not completely sure ... ?               Stalingrad/El Alamein time frame (late '42 (+ or -) ... ? ? ? ? ? ? ? German Rifle Plt: 59 men, 11 SMGs, 6 MGs. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?German SMG Plt. : 52 man, 30 SMGs, 4 MGs. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?      Russian Rifle Plt : 52 men, 14 SMGs, 7 MGs, 1 50mm mortar. ? ?Russian SMG Plt : 33 men, 25 SMGs, 3 MGs. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Guards Plt : 57 men, 18 SMGs, 8 MGs, 1 50mm mortar. ? ? ? ?         UK Rifle Plt : 37 men, 6 Automatic Rifles, 4 MGs, 1 50 -60mm Mortar. ? ? ? ?               UK MG Plt : 40 men, ?6 HMGs. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Hope that helps ...  :D




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CyberShadow
 Post subject: WWII Infantry
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:35 pm 
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That is fantastic guys, thanks. My own research has uncovered that a standard German infantry squad consisted of a three man LMG team, a squad leader and six rifle guys. A rifle platoon was then four squads, a command squad and transport in the form of 251/1 or trucks.

There is also rumour that the Soviets had whole squads with LMGs.

It looks like Mein Panzer is changing their squad representation, from two bases for a squad to one. This means that each base should have a LMG and a couple of rifle guys on it.

The H&R web site is 'recently' updated, but even so the lack of any kind of information is annoying. Ground Zero are another company really good at this. I would even photograph my own minis and send them in if I thought that this would help.

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: WWII Infantry
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:28 pm 
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I'm pretty sure the standard German rifle squad in '42 - '43 (so, for Stalingrad)was 9 men, one of which was an LMG, with a nominal 4 squads per platoon, but as the war went on I think it was reduced to 3 squads per platoon (most armies did a similar thing). Also, as the war went on, the number of automatic weapons per squad increased, especially after the introduction of the Sturmgewehr in late '44.  

The Russian rifle squad for the same time period was 15 (16?) men, with one LMG. I don't think the Russkies ever had whole squads of LMGs, but I'm pretty sure they did have all SMG (sub-machine gun) squads from about mid '44 on.

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: WWII Infantry
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:08 pm 
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Interesting. I guess that the definer for this is the number of heavy weapons. So...

1. Do most squads (Germans at both, Soviets and British) have a single heavier weapon for each squad/section?

2. What were the heavy weapons for the Germans at Stalingrad and El Alamein, the Soviets at Stalingrad and the British at El Alamein?

Thanks.

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: WWII Infantry
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:15 pm 
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The heavy weapons (medium and heavy machine guns, mortars, etc.) were typically in a separate platoon, which HQ then allocated as needed.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: WWII Infantry
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:21 am 
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Yes, in all cases, a LMG (or larger) was in all squads, generally ...  And for heavy weapons, D/S is correct ... Lgt, Med and Hvy MGs and Mortars (50-82mm depending on the Army).  The UK and Germans did have AT Rifles in NA but these were of little use but there ...  When looking over the Scenarios in AH's Tobruk and SL's Stalingrad forces ...  In both cases   all forces in those scenarios, the infantry only have MGs of all classes.  And the counter mix includes Mortars ... And you are correct C/S, about the composition of a German Squad.  They effectively used the concept of a MG supported by Infantry.  While many Armies had it the other way around ...

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: WWII Infantry
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:08 am 
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Thanks again, all. My current situation is:

Germans - commander, second, LMG + 2 helpers, 6 rifles

British - command (with SMG), LMG + helper, 5 rifles (+ 3 guys designed to dig, help and replace lost guys).

I am still looking for info on Russian squads - exact squad composition. Anyone got a web site or good reference for that?

Thanks.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: WWII Infantry
PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:18 pm 
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For a USSR Squad - 3 SMGs (incl. Sqd Ldr), 4 Rifles, 1 LMG ...

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