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The Return of Adeptus Titanicus

 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:32 am 
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As opposed to the horrible cluster-wotsit that alternating actions does to army selection, you mean?


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 9:06 am 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
IGOUGO


Bwhahahahaha [deep breath]
Bwhahahahaha [wipes tears from eyes]

It's like a children's game


Yeah, my heart sank a little at that too...

It is by phases, but hopefully there is time for them to change their mind. And yes, its a way to avoid the list building spam - though numbers of formations seem to be set per side anyway (generally 5).

Shame, as from what i read the knight on knight game that came out last year had an interesting mechanic where plasma points were set at the beginning of the turn to determine available actions - including initiative for the individual knight. I was hoping they were drawing on that.

Anyway - time for L4 to come tell us how they introduced alternating activations in 1st ed... ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:42 am 
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Yeah, that's straight out of the original, and is a very different beast from 40k-style IGOUYGO.

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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:02 pm 
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Aye it was at least phased vs turn IGOUGO but man even battletech is reactive now iirc from what I've heard (it's been decades now since I played). Let us not forget that a huge reason they pushed AT was in response to BT (which was huge during the period) and that GW had gotten slapped on their not properly licensed Mecha they attempted to make.

I did really think they'd finally take an opportunity to make a clean break with aging mechanics but [shrugs]... Those sheets for the power levels and other goodies for the Titans look ace however

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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:05 pm 
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Blip ... WE play it as modern combat as a basis ... WE like Sci-fi ... not Sci-Fantasy !!!! < MWAHAHAHA !!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >:D

Yes ... Blip ... there is Activation for AT. You just alternate Titan vs. Titan. Just almost like in E:A. One side activates one Titan. And it does all the actions it can. Then the other side activates one Titan, etc. And so it goes back and forth. Like a Chess game.

And by doing that it comes as close to simultaneous combat as you can get, IMO ... And yes, in tank to tank or ship to ship ... one will fire before anther. Like as I said in an old West Gunfight. And ... that does mean in a shoot out or firefight, some one will shoot & hit it's target before another. That is just the way it works in reality. Which ... I know ... I know ... some don't like a modicum of reality in Sci-fi ... But WE do ... If I see something in a game that does not appear tactically sound, etc., or even with the game's mechanics, I change it ...

Again, my crew & I were playing wargames since the 60's. And all had a very good working knowledge of history. So when we started to play Epic in '90. We had a good idea of how modern combines arms ground combat and even naval engagements work.

And when it comes to modern Ground Combat ... I played 1 to 1 scale "wargames", '79-'90 as Grunt Leader. So my POV may be/is a bit skewed.

But as I always say Do What Works 4 U ... Not me ... :P

And remember GW has even said, they are a model companies first and rules come second. And they sell models all "pimped-up" with glitzes, bobs, fobs, etc. And in Many case bright shiny circus colors. To appeals to the non-hard corps gamers as well, IMO. This is what I see again with AT8mm and abundantly clear with SM2/TL ... SM2/TL were more like "Games" ... Not wargames.

But since my crew & I were hard corps gamers with a strong historical back ground. WE very much took poetic, "artistic", etc. license ... to make the game suit us ... And again "not 4 U", Whoever you may be ... But again, "4 Us" ... ^-^

So we didn't drink the GW Kool Aid and took their game to the next level.

DWW4U ... NM ... 8)

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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:40 pm 
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Actually alternate claims it's not IGOUGO from audience member
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/p ... ge#9184094
Quote:
I think Andy worded it badly in the seminar, because what he said didn't reflect the games I'd seen. It's not really like the original AT (where the turn sequence is based on the orders that have been issued), and it's definitely not what I'd think of as "I go you go" - but I can see what he was getting at. Instead it's more like: in the movement phase, I move a titan, then you move a titan, then I move a titan, and so on. I'd call that 'alternate activation' rather than 'I go you go'.


Some write ups from players at the demo game
http://titanownersclub.blogspot.co.uk/2 ... nicus.html
Quote:
Hi all.

I am here watching the new Adeptus Titanicus game carried out with 28mm scale Titans.

The game seems fast and pacey.

There are modifiers to to hit rolls (such as -1 if partially obstructed by a building.

Reactors are powered up and down to boost shields/strength of certain weapons and move faster. For instance a Reaver can move 6" as standard or 9" if he pushes his reactors.

Reactor overload actions are worked out at the end of the game turn. They can result in several different results like loosing shields, or prevent yourself from firing further Plasma weaponary or even reactor meltdown.

The game acts akin to chess where each unit takes it in turn to do an action. Turning the Titans have limits in 45 degree angles and cost movement or action points.

Each Titan runs a command panel as below where all information such as the one below.

They list the weapons that the Engine is equipped with, arcs of fire,range etc. It also enables you to keep track or apply special actions and keep track of that Titans activities.

When a Titan is hit without shields, the location of the hit (effected by arc of the strike) is rolled and damage is calculated against that part. Damage points are applied and damage strength is rolled to see how bad the damage is. It can result in reactor leaks, basic armour damage (easier to damage in the future) and even Engine Death.

Damage can be repaired by Servitor units which obviously costs actions.

The buildings used are Cad onto Foamboard of the modular plastic buildings that will be available to buy to assemble as you desire.


http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/51552131/
Quote:
Mechanically i was not able to directly play the game but I paid as much attention as I could whilst taking photos, and I think I have a pretty good perception of it. Conceptually its clear as crystal (sans knights but its easy to imagine the game with them)

Imagine titans as something of a giant battleship. Vehicle so vast they have armour differences for each location - Legs are actually quite strong on most titans. This is done because most things a titan fight will be attacking from below and you might imagine that titan vs titan combat, gettingyour leg blown out is badnews.

(The rules are for a certain FW. They even have a similar layout (but a blueish tint instead of red) to the book. The models themselves im not sure, will likely find out sunday)

However, not as bad as getting your fething face shot up. Which happened on at least two occasions that game.

If your void shields are down, and your hit in the face, you can expect your moderatii to die and your MIU's severed.

A reaver titan may expect to survive about 3 bad hits to the face before being destroyed if memory serves me right (it had also been beaten up bad before)
You may be fearing "oh feth alphastrike city" but you'd be very wrong (at least if your a titan, not sure on knights as none took part). Multiple reasons for this and I will explain the conceptual part first;

Ranges matter ALOT in this game. First turn only Apoc launchers and Volcano cannons were in range.

[...]

(The titan weapons seen, turbo lasers, plasma blastgun, sunfury plasma annhiliator, laser blasters, melta cannons and inferno guns, all weapons that were not in range turn 1 (aside from one instance of for laser blaster/turbo laser i'll get to that in a moment)

Onto mechanically why: the game is done in phases like 40, however each "turn" each sides roll a D10 (yes the game uses d10s!) for initiative.

The side with the higher initiative activates a titan first.

For example (there weas a phase before this, which was not done in turn one, i;ll check my actual written notes soon) Team 1 moves a warlord titan. Team 2 moves a titan of their choice and so on.

Once all titans are moved, we enter the repair phase, where the tech priest on board will begin to repair any current damage. This can be stuff such as plasma reactors leaking etc. Then its damage control ; are these leaking system causing bad effects? what means are being used to dampen these?

I'll go back to more specifics once i've covered damage because its quite important.
We enter the combat phase after this. Naturally this where (most) the attacking happens.
Titans cannot split weapons without giving an order beforehand (more later). First you roll to hit as per usual however other factors are taken into account; dead moderatii, range (seemed to be for certain weapon types) and cover all adjust these values to hit.

Then, the enemy rolls a void save. This is dependent on how many void shields they currently have operating. Shields tend to become less effective as the game goes on due to systems being damaged and the shields being bombarded so less are operating at one time.

[...]

Once the enemy has no shields (or they fail a save iirc) you will begin hitting them.
This is where things get interesting. the old familar D6+Strength, then a bonus if you flanked (there didnt seem to be side armour for each component. Probably for the best otherwise we might have 3 values for each damn piece and there are alot of pieces)

Then your total is compared against the various thresholds for that location. Normal, Critical, Devastating

Normal, obviously, just does damage. Critical and devastating you roll on tables.
These cause additional damage as well as special effects. Devastating ones tend to be permanent - such as a plasma reactor being blown open or a crew member being heavily wounded.

Thats the essence of the game. There are of course specific for deaths of a titan.
One such result is a rather understated "silenced" - crew is dead, perforated beyond function, but stands tall and remains on the board.

Another is "laid low" the titan scatters a short distance, then you roll for the direction it falls

Of course more dramatic explosions exist.
Before all this however (im not sure it applies first turn, it may of just been to help familiaries people with the game to skip it first turn) is Orders Phase.

Each titan has a number of orders. These include: Emergency repairs (bonuses to repairing but you either move, or shoot - you'll actually do alot of moving in this game. ALOT). Stride - immiedately move (iirc) but again, you must either move or fire.

There was one more orders but alas it was not used. OH WAIT. CHARGE.
Charge; move. make immiedate attack.. you may of course make another melee attack later.

[...]

Melee combat, from what little i've seen is absolutely viable. A reaver punched another 4 times in the face, causing 2 criticals, forcing the enemy titan (which had a chainfist!) to back off like the Treasonous Legio Mortis pussycat it was
(Yeah repair was after move)

So how do you do orders?
Well if your the Princep Seniororous (no idea how to spell bs latin), you pass your order automatically everyone else makes d10 command checks.

Fail, and well, many guard players know what happens next; no more orders for that team.

We now also have something familar to Battletech players; heat! In this case its the plasma reactor.

You can boost certain actions by powering up your reactor.
For example movement can be exchanged for a better value that is listed in brackets, special rules of some weapons (for example laser blasters can be used to overpower a shield) can be activated ,some weapons require powering (Belicosa's for example)

Plasma weapons can be outright simply improved using reactor power, though the boosts do not work against void shields because of how these weapons work (so much like tabletop, void shields are countered by chaffire, though some strong weapon types can defeat them)

Another use is boostingyour shields. Declaring power to your void shields (it done per instance of weapon fired, so not like jinking) gives you the ability to reroll 1's.
So one believable tactic is to spook someone into keep overcharging their reactor, eventually they will overload it and bad things happen.

Bad things include the machine spirit trying to throw you off like a pissed off horse, forcing your princep to engage in a Machine-Spirit rodeo via a command check

As I mentioned earlier; titans manuervarability is limited. This includes arcs of rotation - you can charge and rotate btw
I believe thats everything besides some loose change intricasies.

[...]

This includes no premeasuring.
Yes, currently premeasuring is not allowed. No weapon uses fantasy cannonball rules currently
If you failed to hit witha blast weapon, you scatter d10 (no direct hit)

Orders that failed - unit carries on as normal.

Voiods do not work in melee - this might be expected.
Overcharging will not (at least as movement goes) cancel your action. Unless of coures your dead.

One order I forgot, that made the game very interesting; First Fire. You fire a single weapon in the order phase, you may not move.

Points cost as per usual are the basis of the game balance (in addition too force org) weapons them selves have specifiic casts
Shields can regen, just like table top.

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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:12 pm 
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Hummn. Well that does sound interesting. In fact pretty much what i was hoping for.

Just got to work out which kidney to sell to afford the models! I just hope the rumours about plastic are true :-)


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:37 pm 
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I was lucky enough to play in the Saturday game. At a risk of shameless self promotion, I've got a detailed explaination of the command console on my blog.

http://colhertford.blogspot.co.uk/2017/ ... d.html?m=0


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:33 pm 
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I might give the game a go if it could be converted to be played with existing epic models.

Surely someone here or elsewhere will put together a chart with all the ranges from the game reduced proportionally from 8mm scale to 6mm scale?


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:48 pm 
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Ooo, seems like some interesting ideas! I'm glad to see evidence of things really happening!

I think we might should set up a dedicated thread for discussions on how to model simultaneity in table top games, considering how often it comes up :P Of course, no model can ever replicate reality perfectly (otherwise it wouldn't be a model!) and there are pros et contra for every model; the question then becomes which aspect of the system you're most interested in replicating.


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:23 am 
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col.hertford wrote:
I was lucky enough to play in the Saturday game. At a risk of shameless self promotion, I've got a detailed explaination of the command console on my blog.

http://colhertford.blogspot.co.uk/2017/ ... d.html?m=0


Thanks - look forward to reading the next part of your blog.

@ Glyn - i cant see it will really be a problem to just stick with the ranges in the book - GW ranges (and war game ranges in general tbh) are usually under scale to the models anyway. My assumption is the game will be dual scaled anyway - use inches for 28mm and cm for 6/8mm.

@TS. Yeah, not a bad idea. We all laugh at igug but infinity uses a form it and the basic game mechanics are good. Its all about the reaction fire. As do most "serious" historical war games i have played. Personally i like the phased alternating turns, but it is s-l-o-w :-)


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:03 am 
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Blip wrote:
I think you are mistaking 40k having anything to do with modern combat. :-)

Anyway feedback from Tom below. Nothing particularly new, but some confirmations. No definite news on scale except "bigger than a dreadnaught" - we assume thats a contemptor.

Unfortunately the lure of beer was too strong and Tom didn't get a spot in the play test demo. :-(

****

Right then, here is what I learned from this morning's seminar on Adeptus Titanicus:

Andy Hoare is the lead designer.

Still a WIP with not all of the rules nailed down so no release date as yet and not sure whether it'll be plastic or resin. Probably a mix.

Game built around 5 units or so per side with a standard 4x4 area but lots of campaign missions are 6x4. Play testing games of 5v5 were about 2hrs long.

Turn sequence based on the original AT scheme of 'I go you go, next phase':
Initiative
Move
Repair
Shoot
Combat

Core rule book has 3 ways of play: open, matched and narrative (battles from HH series)

Uses some custom dice - e.g. reactor dice for over loading weapons etc.

Status cards are used for unit stats, locational damage and critical damage effects. App support for this may come if it proves popular enough. Command terminal cards with pegs to keep track of things will be used - sounded a bit like Armada.

Models are much bigger than the old scale AT - no specifics shared but a Warlord will be noticeably bigger than a Space Marine Dreadnaught. All the current titans and knights FW make will appear in AT. Knights will be the smallest unit. Decals and banners will be available.

Knights are basically disposable pawns but can cause a fair bit of damage in groups (known as knight banners).

Titans will come with weapon options with pre cut holes for magnetisation but no magnets for legal reasons.

Some of the old legios are going to be coming back. Focus on the battle on Beta Garmin(?) (Known as the 'Titan death' because of the carnage amongst the Titan legions). Lots of background on Legio Crytos (from the Tallarn books) linked to the Iron Warriors. Legio specific warlord traits appear granting army wide buffs to give the legios different flavours

No definite plans to do orks/eldar etc but will do terrain and objective pieces. This is most definitely NOT a prelude to a revamped Epic.

****

There are also new images about (BOLS etc) including draft titan data sheets.


All of that sounds great, Thanks for the info!

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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:36 am 
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GlynG wrote:
I might give the game a go if it could be converted to be played with existing epic models.

Surely someone here or elsewhere will put together a chart with all the ranges from the game reduced proportionally from 8mm scale to 6mm scale?



Considering what the price of a 5.5-(6-) inch resin Forgeworld model will be, I think I'll be all fingers crossed on using my existing Warlord, Reaver and Warhound companies. If anyone wants to ditch their old Beetleback Warlord/Reaver models, and similar warhounds in favour of the new stuff, do let me know before Ebay - at least then I stand a chance of getting my Traitor companies finished before the heat death of the universe.


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:46 am 
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BoLS article on the command panel too

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/02/ ... -look.html

Basically the same info as on col.hertford's blog linked above, but has a couple extra pictures.

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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:40 pm 
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GlynG doubt you need to change ranges to play with older models but if you must they're 6/8 so 3/4 on the ratio. Just knock a quarter of the distance off I'd say. Really as long as your bases are equivalent area you should be grand.

Yeah DK you using all those old Beatle backs really sounds like something they anticipated, then selling the rules and setting separately from the Titans. You should have a good time I suspect. This thing screams for a vassal module.

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