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The Return of Adeptus Titanicus

 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:09 pm 
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I'm cautiously optimistic.... more for the models than the rules though it might be a fun knockabout game to play with my kids, I'm mostly interested in the models from a painting POV now... keen to see how they turn out

also glad that it's not being viewed as a 'new epic' game, this fills a niche which only the wealthiest can afford without stepping on the toes of those of us who like more than just the titan-on-titan action, hopefully this will be the best possible situation for the epic scenes around the world, a glut of new players but without a directly competing game...

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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:10 pm 
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Yeah, im definitely planning to use my old AT beatlebacks, at least initially. If its good and the models not too eye watering then i might splash out later.

@splash - no worries. Will pass on thanks to Tom as he did all the work. :-)

@col.Hertford - any news on the targeting dice? I was hoping there might be a hit location template like 2nd ed, but the dice look like hit location will be random?


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:44 pm 
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Just sidebar for scale. The original Titans were 1/500 not 6mm:1/300 which generally was what Epic is/was. Even with the scale creep that has occurred over the years with the different versions of Epic.

E.g. if you count the original metal Eldar Infantry. You have 3-4 different sizes. [Maybe some Craftworlds Eldar grow larger warriors than others ?] Also even the E40K Orks were a little bigger vs. the original Ork sprues.

Add to that the original SMs including the original metal ones. There is 3 different sizes.
The original Mk.VIs are smaller than the Mk.VIIs. And the original metal SMs are closer to the Mk.VIIs.
So if we can take anything away from GW is that "Epic Scale" is "negotiable" ... :D

Also the weapons' range differences between 6mm & 8mm would probably not be an issue. In many cases the ranges were a little too short for many 6mm Epic weapons. E.g. In reality most of the Artillery in Epic would be off the board. FA has very, very, very, long ranges. The only way they'd be on the board in situations that we saw in Stalingrad, Berlin, Manila, etc., in WWII. Used at close range in direct fire mode. To blast enemy fortified and occupied structures.

But that comes under the umbrella of model scale vs. real scale vs. game scale, etc., IMO ... But as we see Game scale vs. Real scale vs. Model scale is not really a factor generally in 40K scale games. Titans should not be on the table in that scale. E.g. You wouldn't generally see a large naval vessel on the board in 6mm - 28mm unless you are doing a scenario like the Campbeltown/ St. Nazaire Raid in WWII. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Campbeltown_%28I42%29

Just some food for thought ... ^-^ But again DWW4U ... NM ... 8)

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 Post subject: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:48 pm 
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Discussions of scale (without devolving into what I hear is pejoratively called 'rivet counting :P) can still be interesting, at least, as @Legion 4 has shown us!

I think exact scale is always going to be difficult with games with reasonably-scaled miniatures, especially considering these games are set in the far future where our usual grasp of physics gets interfered with by pesky daemons! Add that to the fact that a one millimetre difference is hardly noticeable to us but makes an enormous difference to a 6 mm person, and it's easy to see how difficult scale can be.

Personally, I like things to be self-consistent within the range. It's nice to see that those ten infantry can actually fit inside the vehicle they ride around in! Not everyone is so interested, but I find it really brings something to the game.

Even if titans are not so likely to be on the same table as infantry battles (though I disagree with Legion 4 on that one; the battleship analogy is quite good but I suspect the main reason you don't see battleships on the field is that you can't walk/drive up to them... I think titans would have to engage enemies in closer action), the interplay between elements of conventional warfare and a pretty reasonable idea of future warfare is what makes EA so interesting compared with Epic:Artillery Duels, or WH40K Apocalypse:Epic Battles Between Infantry Morasses.


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:39 am 
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Well ... we equate Titans as super heavy land battleships. Like the Germans WWII planned RATTE and Monster ... a huge tracked vehicle with a battleship turret. Or massive cannon ... Even though it would present a lower aspect than a Titan. Besides the problems with traversing many types of terrain. The RATTE [ & Titan ] would be a massive target from the air and elsewhere.

And as I have said before E:A was the best iteration of Epic. And SM2 the worse.


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:24 pm 
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The 40k setting asks to accept that protection has made close combat not only viable, but necessary. It doesn't always do a great job of explaining it, so sometimes you just have to assume that there's a technological mcguffin preventing long-ranged fire from working (but don't think about it too hard).

I'm excited about the limited rotation and movement, and the energy trackers. That might make it slightly more like Battlefleet Gothic and less like a skirmish game. I've tried titan battles using EA rules, and there just isn't enough going on. It's just a blastfest.

And yes, I may get a few of the new models and use them in combined-arms EA games. I never got into true-scale 6mm models, otherwise I probably wouldn't bother.


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:51 pm 
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Yeah reminds me a big in the focus and level of detail that games like SW:A, XWing, and Starfleet Battles had. This is a good thing IMHO.

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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:26 pm 
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I do generally agree that 40K fluff is geared to CQB. But ... More like they make models that they think looks cool carrying close combat weapons. So they make the rules fit that "narrative" ... Not my cup of tea ... ^-^

If they want to make a game where they produce "cool" looking models with "cool" close combat weapons. Where a bolter is more useful used as a club than what it was designed for. Long range killing. They should stick to fantasy. Or call it Sci-Fantasy, having little to do with Sci-fi ...

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Last edited by Legion 4 on Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:39 pm 
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Yeah they do take a page from Frank Herbert about defensive tech to make their themed setting work.

//over detail warning:

He wanted to focus more about the story vs *pew pew* shooting (though he did have some of that) so he came up with the idea of the Dune Shield technologies making high velocity weapons and ranged shooting like we know it now no longer working. Of course you need to handle ray guns then still but he had a great escape clause he added in that ray guns hitting shields causes both to explode in a mini nuke! So you were forced to get up and personal to kill people. Really cool actually.

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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:59 pm 
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Hammer's Slammers and Starship Troopers among other sci-fi focuses on ranged high-tech weapons AND... a good story. And even in those fictional stories and in reality too. Sometimes, albeit rarely, you do get up close & personal. And kill or maim your enemy with combat knives, rifle butts, etc., even a big "frakk'n" rock.

But it is so, so much easier, more efficient, more effective and deadlier. To aim at a target, squeeze a trigger or similar device ... service target after target ... etc., repeat ... But that is just the way my mind works. As I said, if the fluff/narrative of a storyline wants to limit or eliminate ranged weapons ... then write it as fantasy. :gah But even then you have bows, catapults, etc. ... :o

But the most important factor is to Do What Works For U ... Not ME ... But if you paint your AFVs, etc., fire engine red , etc. :nooo I may have no choice but to giggle & laugh. That is just the way my mind works ... :P >:D

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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:28 pm 
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Ummm L4, they did write it as fantasy. Hammers Slammers is Soft Military SciFi. 40k is science fantasy and always has been, mate. There's a reason Warhammer was in the title when they made it as opposed to say the eralier game laserburn. :P :spin :whistle :gah >:D :geek :o

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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:45 pm 
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Legion 4 wrote:
If they want to make a game where they produce "cool" looking models with "cool" close combat weapons. Where a bolter is more useful used as a club than what it was designed for. Long range killing. They should stick to fantasy. Or call it Sci-Fantasy, having little to do with Sci-fi ...


This is the setting that started out with Space Elves, Space Orcs, a D&D like bestiary, Chaos books that applied to both Fantasy and 40k...


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:54 pm 
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Well aware of that linage ... appears GW actually "nicked" the WHFB world from LoTRs ... And continued it on into WH40K ... So IMO, they should have stopped at WHFB/LoTRs ... ^-^

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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:56 pm 
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BTW L4, we're not knocking you for wanting to play with with them in a harder sci fi edge game either. Just to be clear. It's just that as we've pointed out, it's a fantasy setting, hence those things you just described as belonging more to fantasy being integral to the 40k setting. I too like to get my marine models into some more "realistic" games occasionally as well so I get ya! <3

So shall we get back to AT vNext now?

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 Post subject: Re: The Return of Adeptus Titanicus
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:01 am 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
Ummm L4, they did write it as fantasy. Hammers Slammers is Soft Military SciFi. 40k is science fantasy and always has been, mate. There's a reason Warhammer was in the title when they made it as opposed to say the eralier game laserburn. :P :spin :whistle :gah >:D :geek :o


Yes ... but again the Close Combat dominated fluff is not my idea of a good narrative, etc. And both Slammers and Starship Troopers is my idea of good Sci-fi ... Military or not ... 8) You can call WH40K whatever one wants ...

BUT ... DWW4U ... NM ... ^-^

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Last edited by Legion 4 on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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