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[GW interim] It looks like their strategy is working

 Post subject: Re: [GW interim] It looks like their strategy is working
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:37 am 
Above the surface of the Earth's crust.


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 Post subject: Re: [GW interim] It looks like their strategy is working
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:37 am 
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You don't speak for me, Todderman!
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Last edited by jimmyzimms on Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [GW interim] It looks like their strategy is working
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:58 am 
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Forge worls is a separate company right? A subsidiary? So now that HH miniatures sell a lot they eat GW ranges market. So thats one thing that affects for sure.

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 Post subject: Re: [GW interim] It looks like their strategy is working
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:10 am 
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No FW is the same company

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 Post subject: Re: [GW interim] It looks like their strategy is working
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:32 pm 
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Ah ok :)

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 Post subject: Re: [GW interim] It looks like their strategy is working
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:14 pm 
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Rastamann wrote:
primarch wrote:
Hi!

It took a couple of years, but my lack of buying GW was bound to break them.... ;) ;D

Primarch



GW, you are PrimarchLESS and now you pay :D


Hi!

LOL! ;D

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 Post subject: Re: [GW interim] It looks like their strategy is working
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:14 pm 
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Well, I am not particularly happy to see this, to be honest, as it still represents one of the most visible attractors for the hobby in trouble. Without GW, new blood into the hobby will be more difficult to come by. Yes, there are many alternative games and companies out there, but the potential customer has to go and seek them out. You dont stumble across Warmachine or Infinity. You are a gamer who is looking around for something more. You get into gaming through finding WD in a newsagent or wondering what store that strange smell is coming from. At best, new gamers are introduced by a friend into the hobby, but this is really the only way that new blood comes into wargaming without going through GW.

All that said, this news is doing the rounds and what I utterly, positively shake my head at is....

Quote:
During the first half, the rapid transition from multi-man stores to one-man stores and the reduction of trading hours across the Group caused disruption in our retail chain. We also experienced some decline in sales through independent stockists.

We view these as short-term issues and expect to see growth return in both channels. We continue with our store opening programme (27 stores opened, 20 closed in the period) secure in the knowledge that our one man model allows us to ensure new openings are profitable. In the future we expect to benefit from the more focussed selling operation across all channels against the background of a materially lower cost base.


Maybe I am naive, but isnt this essentially saying 'one man stores caused a huge decline in profits, so we will keep doing exactly the same thing and hope that the results are the opposite this time'?

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 Post subject: Re: [GW interim] It looks like their strategy is working
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:56 pm 
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I agree fully with CS. We dont like GW, but the truth is that GW is a gateway to this hobby to most of the new blood.

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Last edited by Lead-Space on Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [GW interim] It looks like their strategy is working
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:05 pm 
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CyberShadow wrote:
All that said, this news is doing the rounds and what I utterly, positively shake my head at is....

Quote:
During the first half, the rapid transition from multi-man stores to one-man stores and the reduction of trading hours across the Group caused disruption in our retail chain. We also experienced some decline in sales through independent stockists.

We view these as short-term issues and expect to see growth return in both channels. We continue with our store opening programme (27 stores opened, 20 closed in the period) secure in the knowledge that our one man model allows us to ensure new openings are profitable. In the future we expect to benefit from the more focussed selling operation across all channels against the background of a materially lower cost base.


Maybe I am naive, but isnt this essentially saying 'one man stores caused a huge decline in profits, so we will keep doing exactly the same thing and hope that the results are the opposite this time'?


I think the idea is... well, let me sketch out a scenario.

You're a GW marketing manager. You want to eliminate possible competitors, and the best way to do that is to eliminate the independent store (which has a variety of products) and run your own retail chain that bans competing game systems and models.

So you offer very attractive terms to stores that buy direct instead of using a distributor. A distributor has bargaining power and through aggregation hides information about the retail market. You know that FLGS owners tend to be short-sighted and only barely profitable, so they sign on eagerly. By watching their ordering patterns and sending reps to visit the store (possibly on a promotion trip), you get a good picture of the regional market and the major players. You quickly identify a target.

Now you open an official GW store. A small specialty shop runs on a razor's edge; even a small reduction in market share can kill it. Meanwhile, the GW store is subsidized by its parent company. It can afford to wait. If that doesn't work, then some creative use of shipment delays and restocking problems can help redirect enough customers to the GW store to push the FLGS into a death spiral.

Once that store goes under, you scoop up the remaining market share and use the profits to pay for the next move. In a small market, you might well kill a whole region's access to any games other than GW's. In a bigger market, you might co-exist for a while with other FLGSs in other parts of the same region. In which case you can close your existing store and re-open it near your next target. Overall market declines, but competitors are walled off and so the remaining customers are more price-insensitive. Without good alternatives, customers also are more likely to put up with GW store policies and one-man store hours. This might explain why GW closed 20 stores, opened 27, and calls that an expansion plan.

So that might explain why GW said what it said. They're taking a revenue hit because of the retail musical chairs, but expect to improve long-term profitability because when it's over they'll be the only game in town and can protect their high margins.

Incidentally, that's why I don't buy the argument that GW is bringing people into the hobby. If they weren't around, the hobby stores that they would be bankrupting would still be around growing the hobby. With better selection and prices for players. You don't see those retailers because GW is busily killing them. And the people GW DOES bring into the hobby pretty much only plays GW and aren't likely to stay in the hobby.


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 Post subject: Re: [GW interim] It looks like their strategy is working
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:12 pm 
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I think we'll find a difference in opinion roughly based on geographic area. For instance GW doesn't have anywhere near the store presence that you find in the UK as it does here. Randomly walking in and getting hooked is fundamentally not how North American wargamers work. The local hobby store independents, even with the hard times they've encountered, are still the dominant force in store fronts here. There's something like 97 stores in the entire US, which is roughly 90+% the geographic area of Europe. I've been told that's only slightly more than the London greater area (I don't know if that's correct or bs but it should give you an insight into the local zeitgeist).

I don't want them to fail but they're doing everything wrong atm. Honestly they're worth more as an IP holding vs a gaming company. Hasbro snatching them up like what happened to Marvel isn't a bad thing necessarily. It hasn't stopped the production of comic books (the hobby) but it's IP is valuable in other ways (the toys, movies and games).

However they are not the gateway anymore (at least here they never really were). Between the internet and local gamer clubs and LGS the ability to recruit is doing well.

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Last edited by jimmyzimms on Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [GW interim] It looks like their strategy is working
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:22 pm 
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Put it this way - in the UK you can't get more than about thirty miles from a GW store without heading to an island or the Scottish Highlands.

I live out in the sticks (South West peninsula) and still have a GW store 15 miles away and a second one 40 miles away.

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 Post subject: Re: [GW interim] It looks like their strategy is working
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:08 am 
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wellspring wrote:
So you offer very attractive terms to stores that buy direct instead of using a distributor. A distributor has bargaining power and through aggregation hides information about the retail market. You know that FLGS owners tend to be short-sighted and only barely profitable, so they sign on eagerly. By watching their ordering patterns and sending reps to visit the store (possibly on a promotion trip), you get a good picture of the regional market and the major players. You quickly identify a target.

Now you open an official GW store. A small specialty shop runs on a razor's edge; even a small reduction in market share can kill it. Meanwhile, the GW store is subsidized by its parent company. It can afford to wait. If that doesn't work, then some creative use of shipment delays and restocking problems can help redirect enough customers to the GW store to push the FLGS into a death spiral.

Once that store goes under, you scoop up the remaining market share and use the profits to pay for the next move. In a small market, you might well kill a whole region's access to any games other than GW's. In a bigger market, you might co-exist for a while with other FLGSs in other parts of the same region. In which case you can close your existing store and re-open it near your next target. Overall market declines, but competitors are walled off and so the remaining customers are more price-insensitive. Without good alternatives, customers also are more likely to put up with GW store policies and one-man store hours. This might explain why GW closed 20 stores, opened 27, and calls that an expansion plan.

So that might explain why GW said what it said. They're taking a revenue hit because of the retail musical chairs, but expect to improve long-term profitability because when it's over they'll be the only game in town and can protect their high margins.

Incidentally, that's why I don't buy the argument that GW is bringing people into the hobby. If they weren't around, the hobby stores that they would be bankrupting would still be around growing the hobby. With better selection and prices for players. You don't see those retailers because GW is busily killing them. And the people GW DOES bring into the hobby pretty much only plays GW and aren't likely to stay in the hobby.


Ah, so essentially, its the Chinese Opium War conducted on the high street! Well, at least its.... traditional? ;)

You last comment I guess depends on the saturation of stores. Do you think that if GW went under, the number of indi stores that sprung up in GWs wake would a) be of the same number and distribution, and b) be as welcoming to new gamers?

I still have sincere doubts that even if indi stores replaced every GW store on a 1-to-1 basis, we would retain the same accessibility for new gamers out there.

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 Post subject: Re: [GW interim] It looks like their strategy is working
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:59 am 
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CyberShadow wrote:
You last comment I guess depends on the saturation of stores. Do you think that if GW went under, the number of indi stores that sprung up in GWs wake would a) be of the same number and distribution, and b) be as welcoming to new gamers?

I still have sincere doubts that even if indi stores replaced every GW store on a 1-to-1 basis, we would retain the same accessibility for new gamers out there.


Actually, this is pretty standard vertical integration strategy, customized for industry-specific details. Michael Porter was very big on industry structure, and GW is very much an 80's-era management strategy company.

Regarding what would happen in a post-GW world, who can say? In the gaming industry, board and card games are doing quite well, while traditional printed RPGs are deep in decline. I haven't seen any figures on wargaming miniatures. I can say that in my area, there were several gaming stores that were very strong. GW opened stores following much the same pattern as I described, moving near a new one every time the one they were previously close to went under. Talking to retailers, and reading their own financials, it's pretty clear that that's intentional.

Meanwhile, it's always hard to imagine things popping up on their own when the current industry undergoes changes, but that happens all the time. Look at how 6mm is playing out; GW withdraws and suddenly you have Onslaught and Troublemaker and others jumping in to take their place. Local game stores benefit from economies of scope: offering games from FFG, Spartan, GZG, and yes even GW is good for both the consumer and the retailer. It even benefits manufacturers, who need venues to recruit new players and who can't satisfy every possible consumer need themselves. I think this even applies to GW, though they certainly don't believe it.


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