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Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario - Game Results

 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario - Game Results
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:08 pm 
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Generally speaking most well rounded lists shouldn't need to be tweaked particularly for it, although it does punish 'zero presence' lists such as Air Marines, Air DE, and Necrons, and also does make it quite difficult for lists with limited mobility that want to sit on the deployment line early on.

I've found so far that pending what you're using you're sometimes better off conceding some points early on rather than over-committing if it can put you at an advantage later in the game. I'd be interested to see how that game in particular would finish in the standard scenario and how much difference the alternate scenario would have made to the final scoreline.

I'd entirely agree in terms of those changes in terms of world eaters - i'm baffled about the lack of ground based AA, especially given the defilers have AA in other cult lists, and the berzerkers could indeed do with infiltrate (i'd argue that basic ork infantry could do with it as well). I do the same with Necrons - their AA may look good on paper but it's actually expensive and a bit naff imo, so i just build extra resilience into the list to compensate.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario - Game Results
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:55 pm 
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Here is a report from the Imperial Fists vs. Knights game in the tournament Mrdiealot mentioned. Army lists and results from the tournament are available at https://www.tournamentbuilder.org. The alternative scenario was used in the second match.

I really liked playing the scenario. I think adding more scenarios makes you build less extreme lists, and think a bit different. We both made many small mistakes that cost us both points in turn one, e.g. I left my Blitz unchallenged (which is what I usually do…). The scenario was a good fit for my Imperial Fist list, much more than it would have been for the Codex lists I use to play. I usually don’t have formations hanging around any of my defensive objectives…

I think the placement of objectives and army composition really was to my advantage in this game. I had placed my T&H objectives as close to the center line as possible and in areas with no cover available to Knights wanting to contest. The Knights spread their T&H as well, I guess to avoid the Fists building a bunker stronghold in the center. Over half of my army was garrisoned of my defensive T&H objectives while the Knights only had two units of Lancers garrisoned.

One of those Lancer units was massacred immediately when I won the initiative as my Scouts set up a crossfire where my Devastators could sustain on the Lancers, killing most of them. I had the activation advantage from the start and after some stalling I think the Knights felt forced to move up and defend their T&H objectives. The Paladin formations were split up far from each other and their advance also brought one of them in to assault range of my garrisoned Land speeders. Doubling up Assault Centurions and doing a clipping assault with Land Speeders, where the Knight could only countercharge towards the Centurions, crippled one of the Paladin formations severely. The knights then moved up the Barron formation to defend the T&H they just lost, taking them dangerously close to my main assault formations.

I focused all my assault formations on the right flank and pretty much ignored my left flank. Thunderfires and Scouts stalled the advancing Knights on my left, and actually managed to break the second Lancer formation with their disrupt fire early turn two as the Lancers had failed to remove BMs.

I won initiative turn two as well and immediately broke the Barron formation. Once you get past the Knights front line there are a lot of soft support targets to hunt down. By the end of turn two most of the Knights were dead or broken.

After I won initiative in turn three and broke a few rallied formations with shooting, the Knights had two activations left, one being a single Paladin. At this point it was pretty much game over…

I think the main factors that won me the game was:
- I managed to split up the Knight formations by placing the T&H objectives fairly wide. Divide and conquer!
- I pulled of assaults on Knight formations already in the middle of turn one because they had to move up to contest their defensive T&H objectives, which were close to my garrisons.
- Activation advantage, forcing the Knights to make the first move. This left them in exposed positions.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario - Game Results
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:00 am 
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Thanks for the feedback :) Out of curiosity how much do you think the scenario contributed to the win? do you think it would have gone as well under the standard Grand Scenario?


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario - Game Results
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:38 am 
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It would be interesting to hear what mordoten, who played the Knights, has to say about the battle. I have never played Knights, but from looking at the list and facing them a few times I think the scenario caused him some trouble.

If I would have played Knights in a GT scenario I would have tried to keep the Knight formations tight, supporting each other, defending each other from crossfires, clipping assaults and other mean marine tricks. I felt that this scenario forced him to split his focus between too many areas of the battlefield. The fact that his offensive T&H objectives were also spread out made that problem even worse (even thou that was caused by my army, not the scenario).

I think in general that armies with low activation count, or armies with a few very tough formations and a lot of soft/small formations to fill up the activations (like Minervans, Knights, AMTL and others) suffer a bit. They don’t have enough formations to both protect their own objectives and to go for the T&H/Blits. But maybe it is a rookie mistake to think that you can do everything at once. Maybe you have to give away a few point here and there to avoid allowing your opponent to kill your over-extended army piece by piece…

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario - Game Results
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:58 am 
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That's what i've found so far from testing - certain armies are better off taking a hit on points on turn 1 by conceding one of their objectives and then instead focus on the other two in their half and making a play for the two objectives in the opponents half in turn 2. Interestingly enough i've found deploying deep in an opponents half to be a problem with a lot of armies - it's fine if you have fast units or air assaults available, but given you're scoring each turn it's not ideal if it takes you 3 turns to get to it!

I've found for lower activation armies the best bet is to go for a style of 'refused flank' and get the two objectives in the opponents half near one of theirs, ignore the other one in your half, and focus your forces like a scalpel at these ones.

Imperial fists are probably better than standard marines at this scenario but i think it balances out when you consider standard marines are probably better at the grand scenario, which would be being used for the other two games!


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