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Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario

 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:56 am 
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I would agree, and I think in the case of a time-out, standard E-UK rules would apply and it would be considered a straight draw.

Talking of which however, the issue of games timing out was raised at the GT back in November, and i think a few things are going to be trialed to try and cut down on them somewhat.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:10 am 
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RichardL wrote:
I would agree, and I think in the case of a time-out, standard E-UK rules would apply and it would be considered a straight draw.

Talking of which however, the issue of games timing out was raised at the GT back in November, and i think a few things are going to be trialed to try and cut down on them somewhat.
Yeah by penalising players who don't finish.

I do find it quite frustrating when people talk about it as a factor of sportsmanship. Do people really believe players are deliberately stalling to draw the game?

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:41 am 
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RugII wrote:
Having played quite a bit o fFirestorm Armada recently which has a scoring system similar to what Richard has described I've a couple of observations:

Unfinished games.... in my opinion it's important that should a game not be finished, the "live" scoring should not be used, some lists will accumulate points quickly early on whilst others in the late game. This may sound obvious but it's not how a lot of tournaments are scored!?

Regardless of hiw unfinished games are dealt with, as it is easier to tell how you're doing as the game plays with a "live" scoring system there is a greater risk of stalling for an advantage.

Whilst we can generally rely on an extremely high level of sportsmanship the approach towards unfinished games (whether deliberate or not) needs to be fair and robust.



In Australia we've started awarding bonus points at certain tournaments for finishing the game on turn 3, to encourage players to play faster and not go the douche move of coming off objectives for a bigger win for turn 4


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:11 pm 
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Kyrt wrote:
RichardL wrote:
I would agree, and I think in the case of a time-out, standard E-UK rules would apply and it would be considered a straight draw.

Talking of which however, the issue of games timing out was raised at the GT back in November, and i think a few things are going to be trialed to try and cut down on them somewhat.
Yeah by penalising players who don't finish.

I do find it quite frustrating when people talk about it as a factor of sportsmanship. Do people really believe players are deliberately stalling to draw the game?

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I don't consider it a matter of sportsmanship personally, and haven't had stalling in any Epic games i've played personally (although i have in other systems), but there's a degree of responsibility from both players to get a game to it's proper conclusion. I would assume it's pretty frustrating in general for players if games don't get past turn 1 or 2, especially if they hate not finishing things properly.

If you're not getting a lot of regular play in i can certainly see that it can be difficult at times, and what i'd term 'analysis paralysis' can be a real issue for a lot of players. Personally i think the best way of getting over this is to not worry about trying to hunt for the 'optimal' move, and instead go with your 'gut' instead. It may lead to a bit of a drop in play quality in the short term, but in the long term you'll be able to assess and make good in game decisions straight away.

Also, having an overall game plan (or plans vs various armies) with an army can help a lot, and should be started in list design. I know where i want to be at the end of each turn with a given army, and what im looking to achieve with it. That way all i'm ever really doing is slightly adjusting the game plan as i go along.

The other short term solution is to basically reduce activation count, get more comfortable using that, and then pushing it up again when you've started speeding up and are more comfortable with the army.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:36 am 
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RichardL wrote:
Kyrt wrote:
RichardL wrote:
I would agree, and I think in the case of a time-out, standard E-UK rules would apply and it would be considered a straight draw.

Talking of which however, the issue of games timing out was raised at the GT back in November, and i think a few things are going to be trialed to try and cut down on them somewhat.
Yeah by penalising players who don't finish.

I do find it quite frustrating when people talk about it as a factor of sportsmanship. Do people really believe players are deliberately stalling to draw the game?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


I don't consider it a matter of sportsmanship personally, and haven't had stalling in any Epic games i've played personally (although i have in other systems), but there's a degree of responsibility from both players to get a game to it's proper conclusion. I would assume it's pretty frustrating in general for players if games don't get past turn 1 or 2, especially if they hate not finishing things properly.

If you're not getting a lot of regular play in i can certainly see that it can be difficult at times, and what i'd term 'analysis paralysis' can be a real issue for a lot of players. Personally i think the best way of getting over this is to not worry about trying to hunt for the 'optimal' move, and instead go with your 'gut' instead. It may lead to a bit of a drop in play quality in the short term, but in the long term you'll be able to assess and make good in game decisions straight away.

Also, having an overall game plan (or plans vs various armies) with an army can help a lot, and should be started in list design. I know where i want to be at the end of each turn with a given army, and what im looking to achieve with it. That way all i'm ever really doing is slightly adjusting the game plan as i go along.

The other short term solution is to basically reduce activation count, get more comfortable using that, and then pushing it up again when you've started speeding up and are more comfortable with the army.


I wrote some articles earlier this year about the different EpicUK armies and was considering writing some more about general play including a section on 'logistics, strategy and tactics' which would mostly boil down to 1. have the job you want to do clear in your head (i.e.: I am aiming to control their blitz, one other obejctive and kill their BTS at end of turn 3) which is your strategy. 2. logistics is building your list with the tools required to achieve that. 3 What you do activivation to activation is your tactics.

Then spin up an article discussing these, general hints and tips, common tactics/positioning things.

Any chance I could borrow your brain for a while sometime in the new year for input into that?


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:26 pm 
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Great propositions! And a great homage to the old E40K scoring design. Is there any written doc of such a scenario available? (Apologies if I missed any links earlier in the thread)

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:30 pm 
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We'll be giving this scenario a go today, with one of the more typically 'one-turn lists' (Dark Eldar) taking on either Steel or Black Legion.

As much as I like the standard scenario a bit of variation is always nice.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:16 pm 
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Blip and I are giving this a try tonight.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:15 pm 
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Just about to start game with IJW. Both playing chaos - any thoughts on how Daemons effect the “half strength” rule?


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:50 pm 
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Demons disappear at the end of the turn before checking for objectives, so wouldn't help you.

I asked the same :D

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:57 pm 
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That's the one rule that i'm not particularly sure about tbh, it might be easier to just keep things as normal for the moment and put it back in if needed rather than the other way around.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:08 am 
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Mark W wrote:
Demons disappear at the end of the turn before checking for objectives, so wouldn't help you.

I asked the same :D


Icon bearer? (Never became an issue though).

@RichardL - likewise. I would like to try the scenario with eldar and see how it goes with the half strength rule, especially in the last turn...

What was the original intention? To buff upgraded units?


As for our game - i made a lot of mistakes and Ian made a lot of invulnerable saves! First turn was 1:1. Called it after turn 2. IJW was starting to pull away at 2:4, but would probably have continued to pull away from me in turns 3&4.



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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:10 am 
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Both really enjoyed it though. Eager to play it again.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:20 am 
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I think the original thinking was avoiding stuff like single marine rhinos marching around capturing stuff, but that could be more of a pet peeve than an actual issue ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:27 am 
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RichardL wrote:
I think the original thinking was avoiding stuff like single marine rhinos marching around capturing stuff, but that could be more of a pet peeve than an actual issue ;)


No, i think it makes sense. While i don’t have such an issue with the rhino capturing uncontested objectives, my goat is got when that single rhino manages to contest an objective held by a full mech inf co (or similar).

Perhaps an outnumbering rule could be introduced instead, where if one side outnumbers 2:1 then the contest is not successful? Though this may favour hoard armies even more...?


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