Is there an addendum, FAQ or rule that overrides the rule 3.1.3?

The war engine is allowed to have taken an action before the other formation mounts up, but may
not take an action after they have done so. While being transported the units may not shoot or carry out any other
actions except to rally in the end phase (see 1.14.1).

If you have it as a dedicated transport for a formation and it is part of the formation, does this override the 3.1.3 rule? I am thinking of Barges of Pleasure, Leviathans, etc. The wording states "the other formation".

I also can see that it says transported units can not shoot or carry out any action except to rally in the end phase. What about war engines that have special rules that state that transported units can shoot from it, or have a special platform like the Leviathan? I suppose the rules were written before the Leviathan got its shooting platform, or (in the current legal version of Dark Eldar) where transported units can shoot from Barges of Pleasure, and these were not taken into account.

Do new rules /special equipment for vehicle trump the basic rules?

It all seems a bit too complicated with one rule cancelling another, and basic rules stopping a lot of commonly practised manoeuvres.

Possibly a question for a second topic but how do Eldar and Dark Eldar wraithgates work with all of this? Are they treated as a transport vehicle for the formation? I seem to think that formations can not remount into a wraithgate, but that is only because no one does it.

Necrons have their own version of a wraithgate that they seem to be able to enter and leave from turn to turn, boarding one monolith, and exiting through another on the other side of the board.

I suppose that is why they have this part of the website. So we can learn the rules better and hone our gaming skills.

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This maneuvre doesn't override rule 3.1.3 as it is all one action. An action is not a move, or a shooting. An action is Advance, Double etc. All the formations perform the same action at the same time.

I just checked the action phase rules. The rule in 3.1.3 is pretty useless if you are using the transport WE to move unload formations shoot and reload and move a second time (in the case of eldar/dark eldar). Only if the War engine that had not activated and was separate to another formation that has moved to mount onto the war engine will this rule apply.

All formations only get one action. Hmm sneaky hit and Run tactics.

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I have done what has been described at an EUK tournament and no one had a problem.

For clarity:

1)Spacecraft activated and orbital dropped the Executioner.
2) Executioner took a double action, moved, everything dismounted, fired at -1 to hit and then remounted as allowed by the "hit-and-run" rule.

Ah cool! good that someone has done it before me!

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I do the same thing with the Tau Jet-Pack rule. Manta with Crisis Suits on board activates as an Advance or Double.
The Manta moves and Suits dismount. Everybody shoots. Suits use Tau jetpack to get back into the Manta.

The war engine takes its action, and the transported formations count as being part of its formation, may shoot when the transporting formation can (assuming they are in a position to), and only count as being a separate formation at the end.

Remembering that the order of precedence is: army special rules > war engine rules > basic rules (i.e. the reverse order in which they are written), the Hit and Run rule is a modification that allows the shooting attack to happen between the two moves of a double. The war engine rules couldn't anticipate this, so the rules make no distinction between until the shooting attack has been resolved and once the war engine has completely resolved its action. So there is some ambiguity in whether the formations should split up after they shoot or at the end of the action. However, remember that assault and shooting actions arent the only ones that might lead to dismounting troops, so IMO it is quite clear that the last sentence is intended to be the clear and unequivocal moment when dismounted formations are considered to be separate, i.e. at the very end of the action.

Note that at this point, they are considered part of the same formation - so it is not the war engine rules that allow them to re-embark, it is the regular transport rules:



In that context, a) the effects of embarking leading to losing the WE's action is a red herring - that applies when it is the transported formation that is taking an action to board the WE, and b) the only special thing about the 'dismounting from a war engine' rules is the splitting up - everything else is exactly as it is in the regular rules. If they're dismounted at the end of the war engine's action, just split them up.

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Guys, there is a distinct difference between embarking a member of the same formation under 1.7.5 and WE embarkation 3.1.3 where the other formation has to move into the transport.

So, if the WE forms part of a DE formation, I would agree that they could disembark after the first move to fire, and have the transport re-embark them before moving off. But remember that the transport has to move over its units to pick them up.
However the units from a different formation cannot be picked up in this manner, they have to enter the WE by their own movement. Since they have no movement at all (as the formation has no activation when starting inside the transport), they cannot re-embark before the WE moves again.

Aren't you forgetting that both the WE and the transported are functioning as one unit during this action?

From the rules:

This was discussed at least tangentially by Neal Hunt here.

The basic gist of the thread being that formations containing a WE cannot pick up other troops, and that this note needs to be added to all lists with in-formation WE transports. Where the transport is part of the formation, and the formation is capable of hit-and-run (ie is an Eldar formation) then the cost should allow for this possibility, and indeed other variations (post assault etc).

To answer Pille, I think that covers all current lists, and since the BoP is an upgrade and thus already part of the formation, my answer still stands; this formation can double, shooting with the entire formation then embarking the troops and completing the second move. Others are prohibited from doing so.

Dave, I suspect this prohibition needs to be added to the respective lists (eg DE) and possibly as a FAQ.

I have faced this multiple times when Rug was developing his list with this idea.

In the Dark Eldar case it is not OP whatsoever.

No, i tried this tactic during a tournament 2 weeks ago and it wasn't OP. Powerfull when it worked but didn't win me games.

Wouldn't use it again, rather stick with air assaults...

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