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Wraithgate question

 Post subject: Wraithgate question
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:04 am 
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What happens if the Eldar opponent moves a Titan or other unit on top a Wraithgate? The rules says that objectives are treated as open ground. Can units move out of a Wraithgate in this instance, and if they can, can it only be an engage move against the unit on the Wraithgate?
And if they can engage said unit, how do you decide how the engage move should be conducted? Should the engaging unit be placed in base contact with the target or can it decide for itself how it wants to engage?


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 Post subject: Re: Wraithgate question
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:42 am 
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Technically no, you can't occupy the same space as a titan. However, if this happens, you are at liberty to slap your opponent over the head, take your ball miniatures, and go home.

The more sensible way to play it would be to simply require it to engage the formation, since you are entering the ZoC. And since you are entering ZoC, you must get into base contact. Note however that if you fail your activation, the formation can't enter play.

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 Post subject: Re: Wraithgate question
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:27 am 
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TBH if my opponent places their Wraithgate in a position that I can site a massive formation or a throw-away cheap formation I'll sit them on it all day long. Anything to get the tactical advantage and throw their battle plan out.

Ginger might remember it more clearly than me, but several years ago I sat a formation of Mad Boyz on his Wraithgate. Being fearless they didn't have to move when broken and sat there as Ginger threw several formations at them to open the space up to use the gate.

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 Post subject: Re: Wraithgate question
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:12 pm 
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Ha, 'remember it' he says - it is one of those things that get *etched* in the memory with 'extreme prejudice' >:(

To Pille, the question of how to handle Wraithgates has never been formally resolved. Essentially there are three ways that have been mooted / played over the years
  1. Wraithgates may never be blocked.
    This means that the entire Eldar formation can exit the 'gate, though they must engage the formation whose ZoC they have entered.

  2. Wraithgates may be partially blocked.
    The Eldar may only exit enough units to move into B-B with the enemy unit that is located on the 'gate (typically 2, unless the enemy unit is a WE.).

  3. Wraithgates may be completely blocked by the enemy.
    No Eldar formation may exit the gate while there is an enemy unit located on the 'gate.

Over the years we have tended to play either option #1 or #3 (discussed in the 5 min warm-up), however in practice they tend to end up meaning the same thing if the enemy manages to get a powerfull formation positioned with it's ZoC covering the wraithgate. The moral of the story is to try to ensure either that you have alternatives (Storm Serpents), or that the gate is not easily accessible to the enemy (use the Blitz).

Note, you need to be carefull over movement of Eldar units within the enemy ZoC, which governs the direction that Eldar units can exit the 'gate and remains in force until one Eldar unit gets into B-B with the enemy unit in question.

Also note that the Storm Serpents' wraithgate can never be blocked and still operates even if it is broken. They are relatively fragile 'bullet magnets' so need to be used carefully, and the presence of the Eldar Autarch on the battlefield becomes a must (for his re-roll).


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 Post subject: Re: Wraithgate question
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:38 pm 
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Pille wrote:
The rules says that objectives are treated as open ground.


I know that's how people play but I've repeatedly failed to find it anywhere in the rules. As all my objective markers are fully modelled 3D terrain I get quite upset when people claim to be able to see through them, move through them, say that you can't claim cover from them etc. :(

Not that it's really relevant to the actual question as terrain piece objectives can still be totally surrounded...

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 Post subject: Re: Wraithgate question
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:12 pm 
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It is not actually specified as such in the rules, but has been repeatedly debated over the years. (see here for an example).

The rules suggest using a terrain piece rather than a 'marker' purely for aesthetic reasons. The discussions suggest measuring to the centre of that terrain piece to avoid 'unpleasantness'.
Moral - bring this up in the "5 min discussion" and if in doubt, assume the most stringent definition (centre).

And, the only "terrain" on the board is what has been set up prior to placing the Objectives, so in that sense, no your "marker" does not block line of sight unless it is actually placed on a *real* terrain piece - or you agree that it does up front in the 5 min discussion . . . :)


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 Post subject: Re: Wraithgate question
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:24 pm 
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So the Gates can only be placed by the Eldar as Objectives ? If so how many ? Other than mobile gates like the Storm Serpent ...

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 Post subject: Re: Wraithgate question
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:48 pm 
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Thanks for the link. Would it be worth adding some of this to the UK tournament PDFs?

When I came to the Winter Warmer earlier in the year some of this stuff was a big shock because I was going by what's in the available rules and getting told I was in the wrong. Not very newbie-friendly. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Wraithgate question
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:16 pm 
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Legion 4 wrote:
So the Gates can only be placed by the Eldar as Objectives ? If so how many ? Other than mobile gates like the Storm Serpent ...



It's all detailed in the Eldar army lists.


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 Post subject: Re: Wraithgate question
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:20 pm 
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NetEpicA or GW's Swordwind ? :-\ After a quick search, so all Eldar Lists include a Gate ? What about Exodites ? :sos

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 Post subject: Re: Wraithgate question
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:46 pm 
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Not sure what you are asking? If an army list includes a wraithgate it will say so, and it also says how to set them up. Whether netea, swordwind or EpicUK.

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 Post subject: Re: Wraithgate question
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:14 pm 
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Must have missed it ... will have to review both documents ... :-\ :-[ I'm old ... :nooo :whistle

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 Post subject: Re: Wraithgate question
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:54 pm 
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O.K. ... Reviewed the GW E:A rules and Swordwind. Understand Eldar may take one Gate from their 3 Objectives. And must be placed on Eldar 1/2 of table ... Now, Exodites are mentioned in Swordwind, but does not mention if they can use a Webgate ? The only Craftworld mentioned is Biel-Tan, regardless, from what I have seen of other "fan" lists all Craftworlds can have a webgate [for 50 pts]. Since the Exodites don't have a Craftworld, and are considered somewhat lower-tech than the other Eldar, can they have a gate ? :-\

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 Post subject: Re: Wraithgate question
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:06 pm 
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L4, if the list allows gates then it allows gates. GW never made an Exodite list so don't go looking in swordwind for answers. :P

Do you have a question about a specific list and gates?

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Last edited by jimmyzimms on Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Wraithgate question
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:17 pm 
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Yes, I know ... GW has said very little about Exodites. But that being said, does it say in any "fan" lists about an Exodite gate ? :eh Based on the fluff, these backwater rustics of the Eldar race probably wouldn't have a gate ... :geek

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