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Let's talk about: The Necrons

 Post subject: Let's talk about: The Necrons
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:14 am 
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I had my first game against the Necrons, and think they've done a good job of making them unique and interpretting their background into rules well (perhaps with the exception of the Monolith Slingshot below, which makes a slow army incredibly fast!). It will be interesting to see what people can do with an army that looks slow but can actually pacman across the board, going in a portal on one side and coming out on the other.

I'd like to hear how other people are using or combatting them, but I've got three questions to start with:

Appear-Assault-Escape: Was it an intention of the rule designers that Necrons can appear out of a Monolith, fight and assault, and then escape into a second Monolith or is that just a byproduct of the consolidation moves?

Monoliths: Does breaking Monolith formations have any impact on units' ability to use them? (For some reason I thought units coming through broken monolith formations got a blast marker so made a big effort to break them, but can't find that rule. Maybe I optimistically imagined it ;D)

Monolith Slingshots: Have 'slow' Necrons actually got one of the largest assault moves in the game, since their Monoliths can double move (15cmx2) deploy (+5cm) and engage (+15cm) an enemy that was 50cm away from the Monolith's start position in close combat, or 65cm away in a firefight.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about: The Necrons
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:01 am 
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No

No - silly I know

Monoliths are not vehicles. There is no 5cm deploy. There is the double (so as to be able to support an assault) and then the unit can 15cm charge out.

Hope this helps

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about: The Necrons
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:48 am 
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Assault out of one, consolidate into another was not intended? :o That was one of the first tricks I thought of when reading the list, it's not like it's not an obvious tactic.

Does require a large amount of monoliths to pull off regularly so I don't know if it's effective (still painting my Necrons!), but I can't imagine that it didn't come up in list development.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about: The Necrons
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:13 am 
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Quote:
Appear-Assault-Escape: Was it an intention of the rule designers that Necrons can appear out of a Monolith, fight and assault, and then escape into a second Monolith or is that just a byproduct of the consolidation moves?
I believe it must have been intended and I've used twice within the last week! :)

I've learnt to keep other portals nearby (within 30cm) to accomadate broken Phalanxes aswell.
They have to get off board or they are dead.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about: The Necrons
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:15 am 
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Assault and consolidate is completely intentional, but actually pretty difficult to pull off (the entire necron formation must be within 5cm of the second monolith during the engagement to be able to consolidate back through it.)

There is no 5cm disembarking for monoliths; units use their own movement through the portal.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about: The Necrons
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:44 am 
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Onyx wrote:
I've learnt to keep other portals nearby (within 30cm) to accomadate broken Phalanxes aswell.
They have to get off board or they are dead.


You what?! My Bristol opponent has never played it that way. And indeed, Necrons really bug me!

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about: The Necrons
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:46 am 
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That was by way of hyperbole. They'll get munched if they stay on board, it's the easiest way to get rid of them for good.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about: The Necrons
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:15 pm 
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Yeah, it was a figure of speech.
A broken Infantry Phalanx that's still on the board, has a giant bullseye painted on it for the rest of the turn and quite rightly so.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about: The Necrons
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:19 pm 
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I think these are all answered, but...

Matt-Shadowlord wrote:
Appear-Assault-Escape: Was it an intention of the rule designers that Necrons can appear out of a Monolith, fight and assault, and then escape into a second Monolith or is that just a byproduct of the consolidation moves?

Intended.

Quote:
Monoliths: Does breaking Monolith formations have any impact on units' ability to use them? (For some reason I thought units coming through broken monolith formations got a blast marker so made a big effort to break them, but can't find that rule. Maybe I optimistically imagined it

No effect. Being broken does not negate special abilities. Portals, Supreme Commander rerolls, First Strike, etc. all function normally on broken units.

The "BM for a broken portal" idea had a lot of discussion, but it was not implemented (which I personally think was the correct decision).

Quote:
Monolith Slingshots: Have 'slow' Necrons actually got one of the largest assault moves in the game, since their Monoliths can double move (15cmx2) deploy (+5cm) and engage (+15cm) an enemy that was 50cm away from the Monolith's start position in close combat, or 65cm away in a firefight.

As others noted, it's not a vehicle with a disembark. The Monolith moves into position on its move (or teleports in), and the assaulting formation comes out on their action, counting the portal location as the start of the move. It's still wickedly effective, but does have the disadvantage of requiring 2 activations.

If the portal is going to be out of support range anyway, the Monolith could March. Total theoretical distance for a Phalanx "slingshot" would be 30cm (Monolith Double) + 15cm (Charge move) + 15cm (FF range), or 60cm. Destroyers or other fast formations could, obviously, go farther.

However, if you want to use Consolidation to hop back off-board, you have to be within 5cm of a Monolith, so that cuts 10cm off. Further, if you want Monolith FF support for the assault, that takes it down to 30cm (Monolith Double move) + 15cm (FF support range from the Monolith), or 45cm.

==

Edit: Corrected, per Onyx. Doh! :-[


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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about: The Necrons
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:23 pm 
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Only clarification to Neals comments is that Necron's can't March (see Implacable Advance) :)
Then they really would be a mobile army!

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about: The Necrons
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:25 pm 
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Matt-Shadowlord wrote:
I had my first game against the Necrons, and think they've done a good job of making them unique and interpretting their background into rules well (perhaps with the exception of the Monolith Slingshot below, which makes a slow army incredibly fast!). It will be interesting to see what people can do with an army that looks slow but can actually pacman across the board, going in a portal on one side and coming out on the other.

I'd like to hear how other people are using or combatting them, but I've got three questions to start with:

Appear-Assault-Escape: Was it an intention of the rule designers that Necrons can appear out of a Monolith, fight and assault, and then escape into a second Monolith or is that just a byproduct of the consolidation moves?


Thanks for posting regarding the Necrons. The original design never had in mind the appear-assault-escape. But when people pointed out years ago that you could use it that way, the Army Champ rolled with it. Corey pointed out that it was very much in theme that the Necrons could do this. It has been a matter of Necron tactics through multiple iterations of the list. But as Zombocom pointed out, the chances of you pulling it off are not great unless you orchestrate the move very carefully.

Quote:
Monoliths: Does breaking Monolith formations have any impact on units' ability to use them? (For some reason I thought units coming through broken monolith formations got a blast marker so made a big effort to break them, but can't find that rule. Maybe I optimistically imagined it ;D)
You are remembering a discussion on the forum, perhaps? This was tossed about as an idea for some time, but ultimately rejected to keep the Necron portal working similarly to the Eldar portals.

Quote:
Monolith Slingshots: Have 'slow' Necrons actually got one of the largest assault moves in the game, since their Monoliths can double move (15cmx2) deploy (+5cm) and engage (+15cm) an enemy that was 50cm away from the Monolith's start position in close combat, or 65cm away in a firefight.


As pointed out by others, the Monolith, Warbarque, and Abattoir are not transports. They function as Eldar Storm Serpents, bringing the portal to the enemy. There are obvious benefits to this. If the unit is destroyed, there are no transported units to lose. But the drawback is that you must use another activation via retaining to bring your formation from the portal onto the board.

When fighting with the Necrons, it is important to have overlapping support. Gone are the days when you could surround an opponent on turn 1, assault like mad, and end the game. If your opponent has set up an obviously weak flank, Necrons are good to capitalize on it, crushing it quickly before it can be supported. Try using larger Monolith formations to teleport in and then perform double assaults (assault, win, retain, assault) to clear scouts and then subsequently break the formation behind them. Scouts are typically weaker formations but there is usually a stronger formation behind it. Bring your strongest formation out to break the scouts and survive the supporting fire. Move the Necrons up as far as you can and then retain. Assault again with a 2nd formation. Even if it is weaker than the first formation it can be positioned behind the first, pulling off a clipping assault at times. This shields it from countercharges (any sane person won't want to draw in the 1st formation into the assault) and potentially protects it from the full firepower of the defending formation. You also get all the supporting fire from the Monoliths and the 1st formation.

To counter this type of attack, players fighting against Necrons should pay careful attention to their set-up. There is simply no time to maneuver out of a mistake if you make one. Have formations close enough to support, but watch out for intermingling. Scouts are a great way to force Necron players to waste activations 'peeling the onion'. Be watchful for Aeonic Orbs and the Deceiver C'tan, which can lay down BP fire. If neither of these units are about, you are safe to bunch up your units.

A common tactic against Necrons is to target the portals. Even if the Necron player manages to bring all of his formations to the board, they will be outmaneuvered by most armies without the portals. Unfortunately, Monoliths are difficult to kill. MW fire is IMO wasted on them. Save that for the infantry. Massed AT weapons are best for the Monolith formations.

Remember that end of turn 2 is important for Necron players because turn 3 is when victory conditions are determined. Formations off board may have limited options to get on the board, so watch for seemingly erratic Monolith movements. This may be your opponent seeding the board with formations just to claim/contest objectives (little combat involved). Also watch for smaller Monolith / Obelisk formations that will teleport on at the last moment in an objective grab. Of course if you are going to turn 4, your chances of winning go up.

Formations broken are taken off board and -if they don't come back- count as destroyed. So bringing a Necron player to points is usually a smart way to win a game. Don't spend time shooting at broken formations in turn 4. They are disappearing anyway and won't count as anything. Deny him objectives and use the point advantage to crush him.

There are a lot of other ways the Necrons can be played, but this should give you a basic framework to build off of.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about: The Necrons
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:25 pm 
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My Thunderbolts love me some broken Phalanxes.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about: The Necrons
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:03 pm 
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Quote:
Only clarification to Neals comments is that Necron's can't March (see Implacable Advance) :)


Yes I was going to point out the same; they don't get to March because they are so *cough* slow *cough* and implacable.

Regarding Monoliths not being transports, you are of course correct, and that is a major advantage for them when damaged because there is no bean in any of the cups the Necron player moves around the table. For the charge range though it actually only makes 1 cm difference to what I described before:

Monolith Slingshots: Their Monoliths can double move (15cmx2) deploy with their short edge against the monolith (+4cm) and engage (+15cm) an enemy that was 49cm away from the Monolith's start position in close combat, or 64cm away in a firefight.

Quote:
Appear-Assault-Escape: ... But as Zombocom pointed out, the chances of you pulling it off are not great unless you orchestrate the move very carefully.


Does the whole formation need to be within 5cm of the Monolith before the consolidation move (ie closer than they would need to be to a transport vehicle)?
I've only played against them once, it looked quite simple and easy to duplicate: A pair of Monoliths move 30cm towards my units, retain, necrons come out, necrons fight, monoliths fire Support, necrons disappear. Rinse and repeat with other monolith pairs.

My best response (playing Guard) was tight formations in close support range and overwatch (since it's your only chance to shoot something that will be gone before your next activation!).

Quote:
A common tactic against Necrons is to target the portals. Unfortunately, Monoliths are difficult to kill.


No kidding, I was playing Steve Onyx who stocked up on masses of Monoliths and sensibly took Obelisks as ablative wounds. I managed to sneak a win out of the game, but it could have tipped either way.

I think Necrons will be a real challenge.


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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about: The Necrons
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:17 pm 
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For the consolidate move - yes. They need to touch the portal to get off the board. It can be done, but sometimes things don't go according to plan. Overwatch fire taking out a monolith is one such example.

Monoliths are strange beasts. I once saw a Monolith survive the full force of a Leman Russ formation, making every single save (lost two Obelisk screeners and broke, but still). Then I've also seen a single Scatter Laser take one out. Ya never know.

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 Post subject: Re: Let's talk about: The Necrons
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:24 pm 
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Just to be clear, you only need one model on a stand to be within 5cm of the portal. The whole stand doesn't need to be within 5cm.

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