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Epic: Hive (New supplement project)

 Post subject: Re: Epic: Hive (New suppliment project)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:16 pm 
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No limos? I'm out then.

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 Post subject: Re: Epic: Hive (New suppliment project)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:16 pm 
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frogbear wrote:
zombocom wrote:
Certainly no limos....


I understand what you mean, however remember that the cult attempt to appear not to want to take on any attention until it is too late. So standard 'trucks' should also be the go to offer transportable firepower and masses of troops. Lightly armoured and cheap (much like the orks have).

It depends how far along you want it. Even in the event of civil war and the split of loyalists vs cult, Chimeras would not really be the majority purely for the sake of where the revolt takes place - within cities and hives, not on the battlefields.


An interesting point. Some kind of land-transporter vehicle may be a good option.

frogbear wrote:
Other question: Is the list intended for a 3000 points force or is it a minor list only made to see small forces of say 1500 points? The issue is that (from my understanding) there really is not much literature on planet wide cult revolutions? How far back do you intend to go for a gene-cult list as well? The initial idea was that they consisted of chaos cult forces as well as they were easy to infiltrate.


From my reading, every genestealer cult ends one of two ways; either the imperium find out about them in time and send a force in the crush them, or the cult becomes hugely powerful and conquers the whole planet in time for the hive fleet to arrive and strip it bare with no resistance. I seem to recall plenty of description of whole worlds at war.

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Quote:
0-1 Lictors 3 Lictors 150 points
Broodlord 1 Broodlord character 50 points


Do you think these may be out of place? The initial infestation is with genestealers and a patriarch.

I know you may intend the force to be just as the hive arrives, yet wouldn't keeping the genestealer Cult force true to it's incarnation that most recognize be the way to go rather than providing a scenario specific list?


Firstly, broodlords didn't exist back when genestealer cults were a major part of the fluff, but they do now. Any modernisation of the concept needs to include them somehow. There was a description back in one of the early references to how if the Patriarch is killed off then one of the more powerful purestrains can take over. It's not a big leap to assume that could be a broodlord.

I think a possible minor lictor presence is certainly justified, and not just in this specific scenario. The Patriarch of any cult powerful enough to wage war on an epic scale will have begun sending a psychic signal to the hive fleet quite some time earlier, so it's completely logical that some advance scouts will have arrived and infiltrated.

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Either way, the list you made seems quite reasonable. I believe some form of aircraft would not be out of the question either flown by Blood Brothers.


Quite possibly, but I'm not sure I want this to be just guard + genestealers.


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 Post subject: Re: Epic: Hive (New suppliment project)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:20 pm 
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Jaggedtoothgrin wrote:
my other concern, is where is the Magus?


I'm note sure it's neccessary to have it as a seperate character; I was planning to have it as part of the Patriarch's stats, by giving it a powerful psychic attack (MW FF or whatever)


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 Post subject: Re: Epic: Hive (New suppliment project)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:23 pm 
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Jaggedtoothgrin wrote:
and yeah, i apparently left out a key word. Sentine Upgrades. i reckon that would be a neat idea. but theres probably a reason why they havent been done before...


I'm not sure it's particularly something the genestealer cult would do, but more importantly the option to add genestealers as an upgrade to formations gives a similar but better utility; not only can you add scout ZOC to an artillery formation or whatever, but some nasty CC protection too. I bumped the price of the genestealer upgrade up slightly because of this; there are some potential excellent combinations.

Basically the list should be all about the upgrades I think.


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 Post subject: Re: Epic: Hive (New suppliment project)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:25 pm 
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carlos wrote:
No limos? I'm out then.


How about more generic "buggies" or "land transports" or whatever that could easily count as limos without having to mention that silly bit of fluff in the list?


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 Post subject: Re: Epic: Hive (New suppliment project)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:25 pm 
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Call it 'civilian transports' or 'improvised transports' and then players can model whatever suits them. A limo for the gangsta patriarch and schoolbuses for the hybrids. Or something along those lines. An armoured limo could make sense in the right context of course, especially if the cult's infiltration has taken place along more bureaucratic lines by infiltrating state power structures. El Presidente Patriarca.

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 Post subject: Re: Epic: Hive (New suppliment project)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:36 pm 
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talking about land transporters and mass transit - would a looted street-train (or equivalent) be an appropriate WE transport?

I'm thinking similar to the Gorgon, but obviously less robust.


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 Post subject: Re: Epic: Hive (New suppliment project)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:28 pm 
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Actually, I like the idea of monorails, that's definitiely going in the "new rules for hive terrain" section!


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 Post subject: Re: Epic: Hive (New suppliment project)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:20 pm 
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zombocom wrote:
Jaggedtoothgrin wrote:
my other concern, is where is the Magus?

I'm note sure it's neccessary to have it as a seperate character; I was planning to have it as part of the Patriarch's stats, by giving it a powerful psychic attack (MW FF or whatever)


The question is whether the Magus will stay with the Patriarch. It is viable, however the area of influence could be extended for the force if the Magus were a seperate charater as you would not have 'all the eggs in one basket'. It would make sense that the Magus could function elsewhere giving leadership where the Patriarch is coming from somewhere else with it's fearsome bodyguard

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 Post subject: Re: Epic: Hive (New suppliment project)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:26 pm 
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Possible, but I'm not entirely convinced it's worth tracking at this scale. Very early days though of course.


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 Post subject: Re: Epic: Hive (New suppliment project)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:26 pm 
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Magi can operate separately - they do in Deathwing, for example.

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 Post subject: Re: Epic: Hive (New suppliment project)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:29 pm 
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Sure, I'm just wondering whether it's neccesary at an epic scale for them to be seperated.

I'm not entirely bothered one way or the other though.


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 Post subject: Re: Epic: Hive (New suppliment project)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:34 pm 
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Patriarch Bodyguard

Currently the patriarch can only exist in one of two ways:

a. In a Blood (shouldn't this be brood?) Brothers formation with 2 other upgrades or
b. With one support group

If you wanted the iconic Patriarch with Hybrids and Purestrains, it is impossible to take. Can we have an option to have such a formation?

Also, I hate to say it however SPECIAL RULES.

1. Will any formation led by the Patriarch be Fearless? All literature will show that the Patriarch will be protected beyond care for all personal safety and if there is any formation that truelly is Fearless in Epic, it should be the Patriarch's retinue. In fact, (and I know I am streching it here for acceptance) any cult formation with a LoS to that formation would be strengthened in resolve and so should either automatically have the Leader rule while within LoS or even auto rally. If one is to gain the 'feel' for the army, it should have at least one or two special rules directly related to the existance of the Patriarch.

Crazy idea: Teleporting Blood Brothers formation (maybe as a 0-1 upgrade): In the battle against the cult forces, it would not be unlikley that what you believed was a loyalist formation suddenly turns its guns on your force as they show their true faces. This could be represented with the teleport rule in that one formation of Blood Brothers 'appears'. What once was a formation based out providing some tactical fire or recoinosance is now an enemy to be dealt with - crazy I know, but could work :)

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Last edited by frogbear on Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Epic: Hive (New suppliment project)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:36 pm 
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zombocom wrote:
Sure, I'm just wondering whether it's neccesary at an epic scale for them to be seperated.
I'm not entirely bothered one way or the other though.


Just like librarians, I think you will gain instant buy-in from fans (and that what this list caters for) if you have the magi seperate. Otherwise it will be a constant debate :D

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 Post subject: Re: Epic: Hive (New suppliment project)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:45 pm 
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frogbear wrote:
Patriarch Bodyguard

Currently the patriarch can only exist in one of two ways:

a. In a Blood (shouldn't this be brood?) Brothers formation with 2 other upgrades or
b. With one support group

If you wanted the iconic Patriarch with Hybrids and Purestrains, it is impossible to take. Can we have an option to have such a formation?


A good point. Perhaps a 0-1 core choice for that formation type.

Quote:
Also, I hate to say it however SPECIAL RULES.


Sigh.

Quote:
1. Will any formation led by the Patriarch be Fearless? All literature will show that the Patriarch will be protected beyond care for all personal safety and if there is any formation that truelly is Fearless in Epic, it should be the Patriarch's retinue. In fact, (and I know I am streching it here for acceptance) any cult formation with a LoS to that formation would be strengthened in resolve and so should either automatically have the Leader rule while within LoS or even auto rally. If one is to gain the 'feel' for the army, it should have at least one or two special rules directly related to the existance of the Patriarch.


Initially I'm looking to work without any special rules. That doesn't mean I'm against adding some later if they're shown to be needed for balance or "feel", but at least for starters I'd like to stick to the basic rules.

The patriarch character will of course be fearless, but I'm not keen on characters making their whole formation fearless. There are plenty of characters who could justify that to the same extent.

Quote:
Crazy idea: Teleporting Blood Brothers formation (maybe as a 0-1 upgrade): In the battle against the cult forces, it would not be unlikley that what you believed was a loyalist formation suddenly turns its guns on your force as they show their true faces. This could be represented with the teleport rule in that one formation of Blood Brothers 'appears'. What once was a formation based out providing some tactical fire or recoinosance is now an enemy to be deal with - crazy I know, but could work :)


Interesting, but very opponent specific. At the very least it's a great idea for one of the suppliment scenarios!


Last edited by zombocom on Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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