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Air Assaults

 Post subject: Re: Air Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:38 pm 
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As others said, once the aircraft activates, it and the transported units are considered to be a single formation - irrespective of the location of those units - until the end of the assault. Units are not obliged to disembark, but if they lose the assault the transport will be destroyed (unless it is fearless), and these units are likely to be lost as well.

To understand embarking and disembarking you first need to understand the way the book is written / presented. Section #1 contains the main rules, but these are amended by specific parts of the following sections in the order of those sections. So #4 overrides #3 which overrides #1.

So an air transport may embark or disembark units (not both) as part of its approach move and air assault under section #4. Once landed it becomes a ground unit and, since it is a WE, it follows the rules in section #3, which requires other formations to embark as part of their move. These units may use any move to embark, including withdrawal (and consolidation but note the FAQ).

Broken formations that withdraw into an air transport do not prevent it from disengaging and may rally off-table. An air transport may subsequently carry out a ground assault whilst carrying broken units, but they may not disembark and their BMs are included when the assault is resolved (see FAQ under 3.3 WE assaults)
Note, the broken units may disembark if the grounded air transport is subsequently assaulted.


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 Post subject: Re: Air Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:33 pm 
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I like your arguments Gus.
Whilst I was at my most annoying, I was wondering if Orks, could use a landa and disembark only the gretchins in an assault, then leave the gretchins on table (asssuming they won and the gretchins didnt die) - effectively using the gretchins as a shield for the landa assault, but allowing the unit to fly away as no units 're-embarked'.

- by your stout logic, this would not be allowed (and of course rightfully so, - I'm just poking the rules).


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 Post subject: Re: Air Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:53 pm 
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Ha you really like ‘bending the rules’, LoL ;D

Those ideas basically fail because you are technically counted as splitting a formation during a move (even though they all count as a single formation for the duration of the assault).
Rules lawyers would argue that this split occurs on disembarking part of the formation, even though you might argue that the Gretchen are still in 5cm from other units inside the Landa, killing them as soon as the Gretchen hit the ground (freed from the yoke of Orkish oppression they scarper pronto :) ).
However they would definitely die when the Landa disengaged, and re-embarking as part of the consolidation (assuming they won) would prevent the Landa from disengaging.

This is an interesting twist that I have, fortunately, never seen this attempted in a game, otherwise I would probably have cried ‘foul’, that you may not voluntarily split a formation in this manner (you may leave units behind if there is not enough transport to carry them, a different question). However I cannot find any FAQ that states this although I know splitting the formation was discussed in the past. ****

That said, using only a few units like this also risks losing the assault resolution, and consequently both the Landa and its contents, whereas if they have disembarked, the broken Orks could still withdraw.


**** Dave, should a prohibition to voluntarily splitting a formation be added to the FAQ??


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 Post subject: Re: Air Assaults
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:22 pm 
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kyussinchains wrote:
. For 4, the overwatch shots can only target the aircraft after troops have disembarked to prevent the old deathstrike sniping

from 1.10 (emphasis mine)

Quote:
A formation that is on overwatch may choose to shoot immediately after an enemy formation completes a move or unloads troops

In the box Special Rule 1.7.5 transport vehicles it says:

Transported units may disembark at the end of any move after the move in which is it was picked up. This happens after any overwatch shots (see 1.10) but before the moving formation shoots or assaults.

That seems to imply that you can overwatch fire before disembarkation. Together with the text in 1.10 you can choose before or after. Right or wrong?


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 Post subject: Re: Air Assaults
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:42 pm 
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Wrong; overwatch can be triggered by ground units moving or disembarking but not by an aircarft landing. Aircraft would be WAY too vulnerable if they could be killed by overwatch before unloading.


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 Post subject: Re: Air Assaults
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:54 am 
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I agree that they would be extremly vulnerable, and perhaps too vulnerable to allow overwatch fire before unloading. I just wondered if that paragraph allowed firing before unloading. Is it possible against ground vehicles? Should it be clarified?


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 Post subject: Re: Air Assaults
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:06 pm 
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It is possible against ground vehicles, it's right in the rules for 1.10.

1.10 wrote:
A formation that is on overwatch may choose to shoot immediately after an enemy formation completes a move or unloads troops, and before the target either shoots or assaults.


And it has been clarified, fourth question in the FAQ for 1.10:

http://www.tp.net-armageddon.org/faq/#110-overwatch

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 Post subject: Re: Air Assaults
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:48 pm 
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Dave wrote:
It is possible against ground vehicles, it's right in the rules for 1.10.

1.10 wrote:
A formation that is on overwatch may choose to shoot immediately after an enemy formation completes a move or unloads troops, and before the target either shoots or assaults.


And it has been clarified, fourth question in the FAQ for 1.10:

http://www.tp.net-armageddon.org/faq/#110-overwatch

I missed the q&a there. Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Air Assaults
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:08 pm 
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Quick question while on the subject of overwatch., does podding trigger overwatch?

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 Post subject: Re: Air Assaults
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:26 pm 
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They disembark from the pods so yes.


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 Post subject: Re: Air Assaults
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:02 pm 
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Thought so. Thanks.

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