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Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario

 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:42 pm 
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That's what i was trying to avoid - i don't want Krieg to be even better than they already are!

What flavours of Chaos were you both using btw?


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:59 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:59 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:41 pm 
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To be honest i think the 'single unit on an objective' problem is mostly down to exactly that - i.e. that it's a single unit. If you needed at least 2 units in 15cm to contest or capture, i reckon it would be a lot less jarring when it happens.

Unfortunately I can't really see any way to establish relative levels of control that is both easy (e.g. number of units) and fair (e.g. by points), so something has to give.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:52 pm 
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ONE thing that 40k got right was the concept of units capable of taking ground (sorry early and can't remember the name of the rule). Basically it's a 'core-like' unit that is able to be used to hold objectives though anything can contest. Basically a mech tactical company holds ground in a marine list while the Tbricks can only contest (unless loaded up). Too bad there's nothing short of a complete rework on lists to introduce that concept.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:14 pm 
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RichardL wrote:
That's what i was trying to avoid - i don't want Krieg to be even better than they already are!
?


Yeah, could be a problem, but could probably be solved in the same way we proposed for the Exeter tournament scenario - loaded troops don’t count for outnumbering.

@JZ - i think it used to have another name but is now the “Objective secured” keyword i believe.

Another thought I’ve been mulling over : Scouts already seem very good in this scenario for speed bumping the enemy and being able to garrison. If it causes a problem you could rule that scout units can’t capture objectives, or only contest? I cant think of an army which this would unfairly disadvantage except maybe Alaitoc...?


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:42 am 
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RichardL wrote:
I had considered making DC8 war engines (i.e. gargants and Warlords etc) be able to hold multiple objectives rather than just contest, but was wondering if this would start making things a bit too complicated.


I don't quite see the point of this. If this was to be introduced a points cutoff would probably make more sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:59 am 
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In terms of scouts - it's worth remembering that they tend to be pretty fragile, so struggle late game compared to chunkier units, and also this scenario isn't meant to be played in isolation - a list needs to be effective on the standard grand scenario as well.

Lego - the point of larger DC war engines being able to capture multiple objectives is so that primarily armies like AMTL aren't hamstrung too much by their low activation count, and still have a chance of being reasonably competitive in it.


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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:04 pm 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
ONE thing that 40k got right was the concept of units capable of taking ground (sorry early and can't remember the name of the rule). Basically it's a 'core-like' unit that is able to be used to hold objectives though anything can contest. Basically a mech tactical company holds ground in a marine list while the Tbricks can only contest (unless loaded up). Too bad there's nothing short of a complete rework on lists to introduce that concept.


If I remember correctly it is only "Troop" choices that can capture objectives (basic boots on the ground, i.e tactical marines), anything that fell in "Fast Attack" (Assault Marines, Land Speeders, Jet Bikes) or Heavy Support (Tanks, Dreadnaughts) could not capture them. Obviously some armies would let you break that rule, most often by allowing you to take some of the more specialist/heavy units as Troops.
It makes sense as your assault marines or land raiders aren't going to sit there twiddling their thumbs, they would be spearheading attacks and when they have cleared out the enemy, moving onto the next one while the grunts moved up to secure the area.
This could sort of be covered in Epic by only allowing Infantry to capture objectives and adding some sort of special rule to certain armies to allow non-infantry/specialist infantry to capture (maybe even a small table at the beginning of each list which indicates which units can capture).
Or all the lists could be tweaked to follow a core-support-special type structure, with only core formations being able to capture.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:54 pm 
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Thank Mattman yeah that's the deal from 40k! Probably as simple (as in not actually simple) as on a list (or scenario) by list basis to have a table or other nomenclature for "Troop" or "Hold ground" formations or what not that can hold territory. Or perhaps they gain 100% of points vs partial points for capturing objectives as that's what they're good at, as you point out with your example of Tactical company doctrine vs those Assault Marines, in that they CAN hold ground, but don't excel at it (or at least not as well).

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:56 pm 
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I guess the real gripe I have ^above^ is having had a blitz once taken by a lone deathstike launcher gunning for glory. Yeah it's allowed in the rules but man...that's just immersion breaking in the game.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:40 pm 
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For info, the current version in 40k is the side with more models within X" of the objective, but Troops choices automatically outnumber anything but other models with an equivalent rule. Marines get that rule with everyone.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:07 pm 
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that sounds terribly fiddly but then again...this is 40k we're discussing :D
thanks for the 8th version. I haven't bothered to read the rulebook because I'd rather punch myself in the crotch ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:51 pm 
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Epic Sweden is currently having a vote on including this alternative scenario in our tournaments during 2018. Would be good if you guys could settled for what rules should be used for it. :-)

I think we can provide some data for you about it during the year. It looks both fun and interesting on paper.

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 Post subject: Re: Alternate Epic-uk Tournament Scenario
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:06 pm 
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mordoten wrote:
Epic Sweden is currently having a vote on including this alternative scenario in our tournaments during 2018. Would be good if you guys could settled for what rules should be used for it. :-)

I think we can provide some data for you about it during the year. It looks both fun and interesting on paper.


Hi Mort, currently any 3 game epic UK tournament can run 1 non-standard scenario (as Blip and IJW did last for Exeter last year). As such its unlikely that this will becoming full part of every tournament. Maybe you guys might want to try a similar route? That way your not locked into a specific alternate scenario?

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