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2 questions on Assaults

 Post subject: 2 questions on Assaults
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:26 pm 
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Had a couple situations come up in a game last week that we couldnt find answers to.
1) Does Counter-charge benefit from +5cm road bonus if the unit starts it's counter-charge on the road and remains on the road throughout?

2) Void-shields and assault.
a) If i'm assaulting a WE with Void Shields, and I get one unit into base contact, does that mean I ignore the Void Shields, or do i have to track FF and CC hits separately?
b) If i'm assaulting a formation of AVs and one of them has void shields would the same apply - I have to track FF and CC hits separately (or even roll the actual unit in base contact with that shielded AV separately)? Or do I just follow the RAW, and since there is one of my units in CC with the shielded AV, when that enemy AV unit gets assigned a hit, it simply bypasses the Void Shield.
It seems the most logical way to treat Void Shields and Engage is different between (a) and (b), but the rules dont appear to cover that difference. In particular (a) does not appear to be covered by RAW.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 questions on Assaults
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:27 pm 
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To answer #2, you need to track the hits differently, because hits taken on the void shields have no effect other than to remove the shield, whereas cc hits go under the shield and hit the vehicle behind.

I am not sure that the countercharge should benefit from being on a road, though others may confirm this.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 questions on Assaults
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:22 pm 
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I like the roads question. :)
The two relevant parts being:
"Units with a speed of 30cm or more may make a counter charge move of 10cm.
Units with a speed of 25cm or less may make a counter charge
move of 5cm."
"Units that spend a whole move on a road may add 5cms to their move."
But surely, in that odd circumstance where a unit is assaulted on a road and gets to move 10cm, that's against the concept?

What I would take here as key, is the concept of the counter charge.
It was already discussed as to not trigger over-watch:
(viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15527)
so I would suggest that although it is a 'move' it is a special move, outwith the concept set in over watch, and the bonus on roads.

Just out of interest, has it ever happened?


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 Post subject: Re: 2 questions on Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:17 am 
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For the void shields, you'd have to track CC and FF hits separately.

In the case where you have one shielded and one unshielded model taking a mix of CC and FF hits, I'd treat it in the same way as Lance hits or any of those other 'odd' attacks. That is: All attacks are rolled at the same time, then hits are allocated in the normal fashion but also done in such a way as to most benefit the attacker.
For example, if two Warhounds are engaged (one shielded, one not, both in base contact) and they suffer 4 hits from CC and 5 hits from FF, you'd assign 3 CC hits to the shielded Warhound (its DC), then 3 hits on the unshielded Warhound (FF hits), then assign the remaining three hits to either (1CC, 2 FF, a single Warhound must take all of the attacks).
If there were more hits- say 6 CC and 5 FF, then the process would be as above but you'd have 3 CC and 2 FF left to assign- so the 3 CC would need to be assigned to the shielded Warhound.

In both cases the shielded Warhound is assigned the maximum number of attacks which ignore its shields, without breaching usual allocation rules.


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 Post subject: Re: 2 questions on Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:25 am 
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If a counter charge move is a "move" then you get +5cm. If it isn't, you don't. That's what the rules say. Is a counter charge move a "move"?

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 Post subject: Re: 2 questions on Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:44 pm 
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1) It does not, counter-charges aren't "moves" like those that are part of activations. They aren't subject to overwatch nor can they benefit from the +5cm for being on a road as that language is referencing activation moves.

They do, however, take dangerous terrain terrain tests as that language says "entering" and "starting to move". It doesn't reference the "moves" from an action.

I put together some FAQs for these, as this is the third time I've seen something like this. They're now live.

2) As above, you need to know which hits are from CC and which are from FF. This is the only thing you ever track though, not which unit the hits came from. Your opponent assigns hits, and they can do so in a manner that allows them to put all the FF on the Void Shields, and all the CCs on other units if they can manage it following the hit allocation rules.

One further note though: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=32260

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 Post subject: Re: 2 questions on Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:39 pm 
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Dave wrote:
1) It does not, counter-charges aren't "moves" like those that are part of activations. They aren't subject to overwatch nor can they benefit from the +5cm for being on a road as that language is referencing activation moves.

They do, however, take dangerous terrain terrain tests as that language says "entering" and "starting to move". It doesn't reference the "moves" from an action.

I put together some FAQs for these, as this is the third time I've seen something like this. They're now live.

Great, thanks for the clarification.

Dave wrote:
2) As above, you need to know which hits are from CC and which are from FF. This is the only thing you ever track though, not which unit the hits came from. Your opponent assigns hits, and they can do so in a manner that allows them to put all the FF on the Void Shields, and all the CCs on other units if they can manage it following the hit allocation rules.

One further note though: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=32260

Ok, so just to make sure I have this right:
My Bike Guild engages a Speedfreak Warband which has added a Mekboy Speedsta (with 2 power fields). I get one bike into base contact with the Speedsta, everyone else is shooting FF. Lets say I get 2 hits (1 CC, 1 FF). My opponent could chose to assign the FF hit to the Speedsta (it has to be assigned a hit, since it's closest), then he can assign the CC hit to the next closest unit?


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 Post subject: Re: 2 questions on Assaults
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:23 pm 
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taiaha wrote:
Ok, so just to make sure I have this right:
My Bike Guild engages a Speedfreak Warband which has added a Mekboy Speedsta (with 2 power fields). I get one bike into base contact with the Speedsta, everyone else is shooting FF. Lets say I get 2 hits (1 CC, 1 FF). My opponent could chose to assign the FF hit to the Speedsta (it has to be assigned a hit, since it's closest), then he can assign the CC hit to the next closest unit?


They can do that. When the Void Shield/Power Field rules were written that didn't consider this situation as all the units who had the rules were single unit formations.

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 Post subject: Re: 2 questions on Assaults
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:55 pm 
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Are you sure they can do that? Wouldn't it fall into the same area as things like Lance weapons, where- although the rules are still kind of shady- it's generally accepted that hits must be allocated in the most damaging way (which would clearly be CC on the shielded unit)?


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