Saim Hann Craftworld List |
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woodelf_dave
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Post subject: Saim Hann Craftworld List  Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:30 pm |
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I`ve been playing a few games with a Saim-Hann army recently. Here are some observations and a couple of questions.
1) ?Win rate has been fairly good with this army. In particular the additional jet bikes available to a windrider host seem a mite cheap. Could stand going up a bit in cost.
2) Without the Autarch, there seems to be no Supreme Commander available to this army. ?This doesn`t seem right and perhaps one Wild Rider unit could be given this option.
3) All the guardians and all the aspect warriors (except SHs or SSs) must[U] be deployed in Serpents or Gravs. This means the only formations able to enter via a Wraithgate or Storm Serpent are the windrider warhosts themselves. ?Could it not say unless being deployed via a wraithgate guardians and/or aspects must come with vehicles ? Gives a bit more flexability.
4) I have found the Vampire Hunters to be expensive to use (can`t pick just one) and struggle to repay the cost. I miss the ability to deploy troops via the traditional Vampire too. ?Still I appreciate that this difference does make the army play a bit differently.
5) Any idea where this list lies in the timetable that is the development ?quagmire and if / when we will see an updated army list to trial.
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primarch
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Post subject: Saim Hann Craftworld List Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:11 pm |
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Hi!
Windhosts being cheap are a problem since second edition. Good unit, too cheap. ITs hard to gauage a fairer proce without pricing it "out of the game". A hard balancing act.
Primarch
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woodelf_dave
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Post subject: Saim Hann Craftworld List Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:26 pm |
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I don`t think its too far away on cost. In the overall scheme of the army the loss of the good large guardian squads (with platforms etc), particulary arriving by Vampire are sorely missed. The Saim-Hann need some compensating factor.
I`d try the additional jetbikes at 3 for + 100 points and 6 for +150 points and see how that works.
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Tiny-Tim
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Post subject: Saim Hann Craftworld List Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:16 am |
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I have been looking at this list with the Windriders priced at 250 and the upgrades at 100 & 150. It doesn't seen to affect the armies performance. However I have only played a few test games and bow to more experienced opinion.
Tiny
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Tiny-Tim
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Post subject: Saim Hann Craftworld List Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:19 am |
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I have no problem with there being a lack of a supreme commander in this list. There are a lot of 1+ Int formations and with the adding of a farseer, you can guarantee what you want to do with them.
Tiny
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woodelf_dave
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Post subject: Saim Hann Craftworld List Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:50 pm |
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The lack of a Supreme Commander is not a practical concern - after all as you rightly say there are enough 1+ activations in the army anyway (much like the standard Eldar or Marine armies). My issue stems from a background perspective - I feel most armies would a some time in the fighting history be led by one powerful or talented individual and the Saim-Hann should be no exception. The option for a Supreme Commander should be there if a player wants to take it.
As to the cost of the Windrider Warhosts. From my gaming experience I had thought the base cost was about right but the upgrade costs could do with a slight hike. But I`ll try out the 250 base, 100 / 150 upgrade and see how I get on.
Another possible suggestion might be to cost the base at 250 but allow a more flexible upgrade, say 1-6 jetbikes at 25pts each. If you take the full upgrade, then it still costs 150pts but it allows the Eldar player to experiment with different unit sizes and fine-tune army costs by adding / removing the odd jetbike here or there.
Anyone know who is championing this list and when we are likely to see a new list to trial ?
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MC23
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Post subject: Saim Hann Craftworld List Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 1:03 am |
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| Quote (woodelf_dave @ 21 Oct. 2005 (09:50)) | The lack of a Supreme Commander is not a practical concern - after all as you rightly say there are enough 1+ activations in the army anyway (much like the standard Eldar or Marine armies). My issue stems from a background perspective - I feel most armies would a some time in the fighting history be led by one powerful or talented individual and the Saim-Hann should be no exception. The option for a Supreme Commander should be there if a player wants to take it.
Anyone know who is championing this list and when we are likely to see a new list to trial ? |
The original concept was that Saim Hann is so clannish as well as individualistic that nobody can muster enough solid support for to warrant and EPIC Supreme Commander status. To date I still have no problem with that.
Tom Merrigan (of Games Workshop) was the writer and list champion of the list. I don't think I've heard from him (or many others) since the great furom shift (don't get me started on that).
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woodelf_dave
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Post subject: Saim Hann Craftworld List Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:50 pm |
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Tried out the increased costs of the jetbike warhosts on Thursday in a 2700pts game against Tyranids. Didn`t fare too well. Risked a triple activation in the 2nr turn to get a large jetbike warhost into combat with a single Tyranid formation, in conjunction with two other jetbike warhosts who moved up to support.
Still lost the combat and with the activation advantage handed to my gribbly opponent he was able to turn the screw.
More testing of the jetbike warhosts required I think.
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MC23
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Post subject: Saim Hann Craftworld List Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:10 am |
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Has anybody even heard from Tom Merrigan since the Specialst Games Forum moved?
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Malakai
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Post subject: Saim Hann Craftworld List Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:36 am |
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Couldn't there be a Clan Chief character to fill the role as Supreme Commander? He should be mounted on a Jet Bike of course, or maybe a Vyper? Just a thought. I havn't played this list yet, but since I have a large amount of jetbikes I'm really keen on trying it out.
Malakai
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MC23
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Post subject: Saim Hann Craftworld List Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:55 pm |
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| Quote (Malakai @ 18 Nov. 2005 (02:36)) | Couldn't there be a Clan Chief character to fill the role as Supreme Commander? He should be mounted on a Jet Bike of course, or maybe a Vyper? Just a thought. I havn't played this list yet, but since I have a large amount of jetbikes I'm really keen on trying it out.
Malakai |
Role, probably. Would he have the abilities of Supreme Commander (EPIC rules), questionable.
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Malakai
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Post subject: Saim Hann Craftworld List Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 11:07 pm |
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| Quote (MC23 @ 18 Nov. 2005 (12:55)) | | Quote (Malakai @ 18 Nov. 2005 (02:36)) | Couldn't there be a Clan Chief character to fill the role as Supreme Commander? He should be mounted on a Jet Bike of course, or maybe a Vyper? Just a thought. I havn't played this list yet, but since I have a large amount of jetbikes I'm really keen on trying it out.
Malakai |
Role, probably. Would he have the abilities of Supreme Commander (EPIC rules), questionable. |
I don't see why one Wild Rider unit couldn't be upgraded to supreme commander. There should be a points increase of course. Maybe I'm crazy but I think even a small formation of a Wild Rider Chief and maybe 3-6 units of Wild Rider kinsmen would be very characterful.
Malakai
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Saim Hann Craftworld List Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:14 pm |
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Not everyone agrees with that. Saim Hann is sometimes protrayed as a bit more chaotic than other craftworlds and/or less centrally guided. That could translate into a lack of SC ability.
Their Host choice is always a 1+ initiative. They can already take a Farseer, keeping the -1 for retaining off the activation. Putting an SC on top of that is, in some people's opinions, too precise of a command and control structure for an army that is supposed to be bordering on a barbarian horde.
There is also the balance issue to look at. SC + Farseer + 1+Initiative is a pretty wicked combination.
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MC23
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Post subject: Saim Hann Craftworld List Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:15 pm |
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| Quote (nealhunt @ 21 Nov. 2005 (10:14)) | |
I have emailed Jervis asking what been going on with Tom and the Saim Hann list. I guess in the mean time I can act as unofficial champion for it here on this forum, unless there's any objections.
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woodelf_dave
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Post subject: Saim Hann Craftworld List Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:51 am |
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I`ve tried to get in touch with Tom too but with no luck. I`m all for you acting as champion for this list so we can see some progress. I`ll need to start writing up some batreps for you.
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