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Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=32530		 Page 3 of 3
Author:  jimmyzimms [ Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
As in an upgrade being "Replace N of unit A with M of unit B" then?

Would make sense as a port to EA as that character in 40k is basically effecting a change to the single unit, or in EAs case one or more stands.

What does thee offending unit do now? (On a mobile and not good to read lists with)
Author:  kyussinchains [ Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
Kyrt wrote:
I know it's only a fan list but urgh please no non-standard character shenanigans, you know how these things can end up setting a precedent. Adding a character should not change the armour of an entire unit, thats too much for epic even it works that way in 40K. Same with other stats, not everything has to be perfectly represented. If it really must be a completely transformed unit, can it not be a different unit?


Please can you explain what you mean? Are you referring to the void dreamer having a separate profile to the unit they are added to? In which case please see the daemon prince entry in *every* chaos list for an existing example of why this is no big deal

If it's about a character adding an ability to a unit, I refer you to the Tau ethereal character making a unit fearless while he is alive

Unless it's something else I've misunderstood?
Author:  Andrew_NZ [ Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
I assume no triple retain for this branch of Eldar.

That would mean that mean the Witch-sight, and hence the Void Dreamer character, is less valuable than a Farseer. Slightly compounded by losing the Leader from the Felarch. Although I happily admit that retaining on a 2+ instead of a 3+ is pretty useful.
Author:  Kyrt [ Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
kyussinchains wrote:
Kyrt wrote:
I know it's only a fan list but urgh please no non-standard character shenanigans, you know how these things can end up setting a precedent. Adding a character should not change the armour of an entire unit, thats too much for epic even it works that way in 40K. Same with other stats, not everything has to be perfectly represented. If it really must be a completely transformed unit, can it not be a different unit?


Please can you explain what you mean? Are you referring to the void dreamer having a separate profile to the unit they are added to? In which case please see the daemon prince entry in *every* chaos list for an existing example of why this is no big deal

If it's about a character adding an ability to a unit, I refer you to the Tau ethereal character making a unit fearless while he is alive

Unless it's something else I've misunderstood?
Yes I mean characters cannot have basic stats. I'm saying if you want to give him his own stats then he can be a unit in his own right, which you replace another unit with. I don't play any chaos lists but checked a couple of CSM lists in the TP and both say the Daemon prince is type INF. The upgrade is to replace a unit with a Daemon prince unit - albeit you then also add a lord character (which doesn't have basic stats). So that looks normal to me. Does another chaos list do it differently? Either way I don't think it is a good precedent to have characters with stats as it is very confusing - characters add things, never replace. Otherwise those commissar shadowswords would be running round with zero armour.

(By the way adding abilities to units is absolutely fine, but not sure what you mean about the ethereal he is the one character that does not actually add fearless to his unit he adds it to the whole formation, similar to spirit stones i.e. a special rule.)

Edit: ah I see why you mention the ethereal, because of the farsight-a-like rule, you just meant formation not unit is all. Yep that works equally for units and characters alike (the farseer is an infantry unit not a character).
Author:  kyussinchains [ Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
my mistake for using unit/formation interchangably..... I meant a formation ability like the ethereal and fearless

and the character upgrade is clearly (at least to me) meant to be a daemon prince style replacement, perhaps it's not written that way (the whole thing is riddled with errors) but the intent is that a void dreamer replaces the character stand, like a daemon prince does (the daemon prince replaces the character, not another stand so you can't have both)
Author:  Kyrt [ Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
I think I get what you're saying but the Daemon prince doesn't replace the character, he does replace the unit - it's just that you must choose to replace the unit that has a character in it. The Daemon prince is an infantry unit, not a character, which means his stats and abilities completely replace those of the original unit rather than being added to them.

The felarch is a character but the void dreamer is not. So you need to either keep the void dreamer as a character, removing his armour etc, or change him to infantry and fix the wording on the upgrade to say 'replace the unit containing the felarch character with a void dreamer'. You don't intend for the void dreamer to end up with a missile launcher, right?

Either way I actually think the process itself, and thr chaos wording, is confusing and ambiguous. It could be construed that after replacing the unit, the lord character is retained in the Daemon prince unit but it is not clear. I personally don't read it that way but technically it doesn't say what happens to the character after you replace the unit he is part of.
Author:  kyussinchains [ Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
okay we're getting into semantics right now, I'll edit the document to reflect that the void dreamer replaces the stand with the character entirely

I don't think there is any ambiguity to the chaos wording, certainly not the epicUK list, it clearly says replace the unit in the formation that includes the lord or sorcerer character with a daemon prince unit.... you could add that the abilities conferred by the replaced character are lost I suppose, but generally it's easier to use fewer words and a sensible, literal interpretation....
Author:  Kyrt [ Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
Yes the epicuk chaos wording is much better.

Yep in this case the semantics change the outcome so glad to help clear it up. And keeps me in a day job too would you believe it. When you do the next update, the other harlie specials are also INF by the way I believe. Basically the ones with an armour value.

Back onto the list: void dragon looks interesting


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Author:  Mrdiealot [ Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
Made an army forge file for Corsairs in case anyone is interested.

https://magnusdurr.github.io/snapfire/w ... airs_NETEA

Also, I think the list has got potential. Would be a shame if it got stuck as a v0.1 fan list.
Author:  Ginger [ Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
Rather late to this, as I did not realise there were Harlequins involved oops:

Could I ask you to correct a couple of things:-
  • The Harlequin formation should have a "troupe leader / Warlock" for 50 points rather than the "Great Harlequin" for 125 points (these costs reflect that he is a Supreme commander with Reroll and better weaponry). This reduces the costs to 375points.
  • The Solitaire is a separate infantry unit rather than a Character (as presented in the reference sheet)
  • If you include the Shadowseer, perhaps you ought to include the Veil of tears special rule in the list.
  • I presume you dropped the other rules for the Harlequins because there is only one formation, and as such their effect is minimal. Alternatively, you could ask the user to refer to the other rules in the Harlie list


Finally, you should possibly note that the statistics are from version 4.2.2, not the current list. That said, I would appreciate your views on which version of the stats you prefer and why.
Author:  Mrdiealot [ Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
Another thing: I think it would be cool if the Harlequin formation could have Jetbikes, a bit like the Corsairs can have Jump Packs.
Author:  Ginger [ Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
Mrdiealot wrote:
Another thing: I think it would be cool if the Harlequin formation could have Jetbikes, a bit like the Corsairs can have Jump Packs.
LoL - for this I suspect you have to use the Harlequin list. :D

And this request is at the heart of the Harlequin list; people have different views about how the Harlequins should be represented and different playing styles. More importantly, the more Harlequin formations present, the more OTT they will appear - hence a number of special rules in that list which have been dropped here.
Author:  Mrdiealot [ Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
Ginger wrote:
LoL - for this I suspect you have to use the Harlequin list. :D


I think the concept of Corsairs + Harlequins is just way too cool to be restricted to fan-lists. The Great Masque harlequin rules have some great ideas in them, but there's just too much "going on" for me. I'd much prefer something a bit more streamlined.

Quote:
And this request is at the heart of the Harlequin list; people have different views about how the Harlequins should be represented and different playing styles. More importantly, the more Harlequin formations present, the more OTT they will appear - hence a number of special rules in that list which have been dropped here.


I think you're 100% right that there's always going to be different opinions about the Harlequins, they're just too charismatic and peculiar for that not to be the case. There's also the thing that there's old and new fluff that's not always in agreement with each other. And finally, there's going to be *a lot* of different opinions on how to best represent the Harlequin special rules.
Author:  kyussinchains [ Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
I have to confess I hadn't read the harlequin stats too closely, I included them for fluff reasons rather than anything else

I'll get back to this list soon, just had a lot of Real Life (TM) things crop up lately that have taken my attention
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