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Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1

 Post subject: Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:30 pm 
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Hi, had a quick look through the list this weekend. Have some comments regarding the list so far.
It looks like you've based the list on an old corsair 40k list rather than the current one as you've put Harlequins/DE in as elites and missed out Malevolents.
I don't have the new list but there is a very good 3 part review of it at Fronting gaming that gives you the low down. I have them saved as Pdfs. I'll try and post them on this thread shortly.
Corsair Warband - I'd suggest a smaller unit of 6 so they fit in a Vampire Raider. You could put an upgrade option to add 2 extra bases instead.
They are also missing an upgrade option for corsair jumppacks. Speed 35cm + deepstrike.
Void storms should be an elite unit as it is a unit of Felarchs. They should also have an option for corsair jump packs. With my comment to follow about Malevolents, perhaps they should be equipped with fusion guns instead of Brace of Pistols.
Cloud dancers and ghost walkers should be core units. This reflects the latest 40k list and allows greater flexibility.
Malevolents are missing from the list. These are fearless close combat troops that have basically succumbed to being DE. They shouldn't have the option of jumppacks. Brace of Pistols and power weapons are probably the order of the day.
Instead of Harlequins and DE being put in as elites, they should probably be removed from the list and allow allied formations to be taken instead.
In the 40k list Falcons are limited to transport options only. Suggest warphunters as the base unit. This unit should probably be an elite unit as all heavy support is limited in the 40k list. Prices for Warp Hunters Firestorms and Nightspinners are equivalent so could swap as wanted. Fire Prisms could be substituted at an increased cost.
As corsairs rely on air superiority for AA, you could think of removing the AA stats from the Firestorm to limit it's effect to ground targets.
Suggest a limit on numbers of Vampires available as they are very rare. Generally only used as transport of the Prince/Baron and his personal retinue.
Anyway that's my initial input. I'll try and post those 40k corsair list reviews now.



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 Post subject: Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:37 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:38 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:38 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:39 pm 
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Parts 1-3 of the 40k corsair list reviews. Links posted above

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 Post subject: Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:01 pm 
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pretty sure one post with three links would have sufficed ;)

so reading your posted way up seems that some of these things are just you not liking names. You use of the word "Allied" and "Elite" isn't really different in practice (there's no such thing as including other lists-harllies hopefully correcting this terminal sin). Ok so read "Rare" instead of "Elite" in the title and is there still an issue with the Voidstorm formation, for instance? If so then you're feeling that they should not unlock support/rare formations instead of being unlocked by core? Being the vets in the band I can see the argument you make, provided that's your meaning.

On the Felarch character, for instance, since it's just small arms the name doesn't matter. If fusion gun makes you happy great but let's worry about stats because rose by any other name or instead of the name; Are there alternate stats you feel the character requires instead?

Also seems like you're asking for a core scout formation with ghost walkers for 125. That's just silly from a balance perspective so support is 100% spot on. Balance has to trump the skirmish 40k list structure in many cases. I can see some good arguments around swapping in the war walkers to core but that's a problematic formation as well. Probably some type of size boost and price bump would needed but might be worth considering. Kyuss, what's up wth the 35cm move on those, mate? Seems extreme (WW having 20) but are you trying to represent their jump packiness (which I do need to point out in 40k is about getting DeepStrike, not running around fast)? 30cm seems a bit better IMHO if you do need to bump them and personally I think 20-25cm is fine and they've got a nasty weapon. They're also an assault unit and not used in scouting so while they could be used in that fashion, they're more about engagements the way they field e them so dropping scout may give them better character and something far more new. Also would make it far less trouble in a core formation if you did decide to play with the voidstorm in part 1 above.

S, Trying to make sense of your consistent use of 40k terms/concepts in your application in EA. For instance your use of Deepstrike. Are you making the argument for teleport on some units (or an upgrade to allow)?

Also, Warphunters are supposed to be ultra rare and archaic only being seen as dedicated units and in numbers due to the zany weird Mymeara guys. We've got a list for them to shine in already so I'd recommend no to them myself though I understand why they're here. I'm totally with you that Falcons are dedicated transports and likely expensive upgrades and heavier units being thin on the ground on this list.

I'd love to see something like Firestorms being radically curtailed here and needing to rely on their pilots too. That's not a terribad way to approach AA.

Kyuss, what's Shimmersheild do?

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 Post subject: Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:18 pm 
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Sorry scrap what I said about the Warp Hunters. My bad! They are also pretty restricted like the Lynx, so the bog standard tank is probably the Night Spinner, with options for upgrades to Firestorm, warphunter and fire-prisms as options.

Didn't see any Vypers on the list...

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 Post subject: Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:23 pm 
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ok some responses:

I was using the list I found in a hokey copy of IA11, and while some units may not be present, most are

I dropped the malevolents as really, they are just a unit which does the same as the voidstorm squads, I also dropped vypers as the list has jetbikes and hornets and really doesn't need more fast attack skimmers, although they can go back in if people insist

regarding the list structure, it should be noted that only corsair bands unlock elite/rare slots, so voidstorms can only be taken in moderation

I dropped night spinners as an artillery tank doesn't fit the fast attack/deep strike nature of the list, happy to lose the falcon formation if they are transport only, also will probably just drop the vampire raider from the list, if it stays however, it's staying at 8-units for transport purposes as that's the established stats in every other eldar list that uses them, same with firestorm AA shots

I can add jump packs to voidstorm squads, but they are getting to the point where they are looking a bit too tasty with teleport and a 35cm engage move, and macro weapons.....

my idea for the list was to develop a corsair list with some new options from the corsair fluff, but also where possible to utilise existing stats to iron out hassles with testing, my approach is that game balance trumps fluff every time

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 Post subject: Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:09 am 
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Liked the look of playing with this list. Just wanted to check some things:

The Character upgrades with armour, CC and FF values - do they replace the stats of the unit they join?

The Vampire Hunter seems to have four MW2+ shots. 2x Vampire Hunter Twin Pulsar, 30 cm, 2 x MW2+
I assume that the formatting just glitched on the twin missiles.

I wondered why the Vampire Raider excluded Corsair Jump Packs. The regular Raiders carry Warp Spiders
and Swooping Hawks. Is it a balance thing, or a fluff thing? Hope that you keep the Vampire Raiders in so I can have Prince Yriel fly to the rescue of the Iyanden Craftworld, nostalgia from my Doom of the Eldar board game. You would also miss all the fun of pirate raids to the surface of planets, . . .

If the Falcon formation goes, leaving them only as transport upgrades, perhaps you could re-instate the transport (1) that the fluff suggests Firestorms have to allow them as a 1 only upgrade with the transport upgrade. One of eight Falcons to carry a Corsair band (+400 points), or one for the Harlequins (+250 points on an expensive formation). Although I guess one Firestorm and the rest with Venoms would be cheaper. Could not see any other formations with the Transport upgrade, despite the other units that could be carried by a Falcon (on the transport notes).


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 Post subject: Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:01 am 
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Forgot to ask. Which formations can garrison?
Rangers (Ghost Walkers) and War Walkers (Wasp Walkers?)?
Maybe Hornets?


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 Post subject: Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:33 pm 
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Good question: should they even be? They're even LESS likely to hold ground than craftworld eldar.

Also I'd hope you'd be the one to rein in the waspwalker silliness. No way they should be as they are now (thinking you just picked them up as is from the Titan Clan list which is silly unbalanced imho)

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 Post subject: Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:20 pm 
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yeah my intention was that no formations can garrison in this list

shimmershield provides an invulnerable save to the formation and means they always count as being in cover while the character is alive

on the wasp walkers, I dropped them in from the titan list, happy to reduce their speed but not sure why it makes them super mega OP? they're broadly similar in potency to hornets, yet with reduced firepower and no skimmer shenanigans?

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 Post subject: Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:22 pm 
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Andrew_NZ wrote:
Liked the look of playing with this list. Just wanted to check some things:

The Character upgrades with armour, CC and FF values - do they replace the stats of the unit they join?


yes

Quote:
The Vampire Hunter seems to have four MW2+ shots. 2x Vampire Hunter Twin Pulsar, 30 cm, 2 x MW2+
I assume that the formatting just glitched on the twin missiles.


yeah this is an error

Quote:
I wondered why the Vampire Raider excluded Corsair Jump Packs. The regular Raiders carry Warp Spiders
and Swooping Hawks. Is it a balance thing, or a fluff thing?


more balance, didnt want hordes of jump pack troops dropping out of vampires everywhere...

Quote:
Hope that you keep the Vampire Raiders in so I can have Prince Yriel fly to the rescue of the Iyanden Craftworld, nostalgia from my Doom of the Eldar board game. You would also miss all the fun of pirate raids to the surface of planets, . . .


I'll make them a 0-1 choice I think...

Quote:
If the Falcon formation goes, leaving them only as transport upgrades, perhaps you could re-instate the transport (1) that the fluff suggests Firestorms have to allow them as a 1 only upgrade with the transport upgrade. One of eight Falcons to carry a Corsair band (+400 points), or one for the Harlequins (+250 points on an expensive formation). Although I guess one Firestorm and the rest with Venoms would be cheaper. Could not see any other formations with the Transport upgrade, despite the other units that could be carried by a Falcon (on the transport notes).


will correct this, transport firestorm is prolly okay

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 Post subject: Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:33 pm 
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they're a war walker with jump jets. That's really it. Period. Add jump jet and call it good. They're not almost twice as fast, they can simply get around stuff. That's a pretty nifty ability IMHO. They're really nothing really special.

What's in the ETC is just silly from a fluff and in that list, balance perspective.

They also are not used in a scouting capacity whatsoever so IMHO scout doesn't reflect how corsairs actually use the unit, regardless of the unit's theoretical capabilities (see the Israeli M50/1 tank as used against Egypt in 56 war vs what's basically the same tank on the other side). Meaning how a unit is deployed is as important to the efficacy as to what it can do. Personally I'd love to see that logic applied here myself but not too worried.

The titan clan is off kilter, not this list. Sorry that wasn't clear about meaning regarding balance.

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 Post subject: Re: Fanlist: Eldar Corsairs v0.1
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:54 pm 
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I know it's only a fan list but urgh please no non-standard character shenanigans, you know how these things can end up setting a precedent. Adding a character should not change the armour of an entire unit, thats too much for epic even it works that way in 40K. Same with other stats, not everything has to be perfectly represented. If it really must be a completely transformed unit, can it not be a different unit?

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