The weapon used to degrade at range in SM/TL. That could be emulated here to add some diversity.

It used to be:

0-25cm 2+ -5 save +5 damage
25-50cm 3+ -3 save +3 damage
50-75cm 4+ -1 save +1 damage

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Dave

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Squats 2019-10-17

I think plugging in a FF component too might be good but otherwise that's a cool concept. Maybe less bands too to make things KISSier? (Ie a 60-30 band, a 30 band, and a FF stat too?).

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

One of the old Fir Iolarion lists also had the Fusion Lance degrading with range, but only with the TK part:

Fusion Lance 60cm MW2+, TK(4 - 1 per full 15cm to target)

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5k Report - https://youtu.be/uuId6XrvWlI

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Another battle report

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=32010

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Regards
Greg

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Not against change, so long as it done fairly and no one is left behind....

I'm human and not a !@#$%^# Robot..

Thanks for the reports.

I have to say I don't think I've ever lost 4-0 before playing this list. I've done it twice now and had a couple other blowouts. The activation disadvantage is hard to overcome once an opponent knows to hit you there.

I got in 3 games with the list this past weekend. No reports yet due to time constraints so here's the short version. All games were 4k.

Game 1: vs Minervan Tank Legion
2-0 Fir Iolarion Turn 3: BTS, Take & Hold

Phantom (fist+fusion lance)
Warlock (Fist plus psychic lance)
2x Revenant (pulsars)
Revenant Twins (sonic lances)
Knights
3x War Walkers

The WWs got shredded and broken so ended up doing nothing. 2+ initiative plus their slow speed in this list meant they never kept up or recovered. The knights took a beating but drew Shadowsword fire so I call that worth it

Game 2: vs Steel Legion
2-1 Fir Iolarion Turn 4: Take & Hold, Blitz vs BTS

Phantom (fist+fusion lance)
Warlock (Fist plus psychic lance)
2x Revenant (pulsars)
Revenant Twins (sonic lances)
3x Knights

Swapped all the WWs for more knights. For the cost of an activation this was a mean list. My opponent has learned how to handle titans better now and routinely kills Revenants with direct fire from Basilisks. He also got the Warlock this game but it shredded his Regimental HQ and helped kill two infantry companies before it went down clearing the way for a T&H+Blitz win.

I find the knights are very effective due to their speed but once they get broken they are heard to recover since a single one will always come back with a blast marker and be an easy task for a cheap or wounded unit to rebreak. I also find their saving throw very fiddly and it is pretty irritating for my opponent to watch me fail two straight saves only to come back with a 5 on the third.

Game 3 vs Steel Legion
Fir Iolarion by points Turn 4: 2100 to 1800.

Phantom (Bright Lance and Tremor Cannon)
Phantom (twin starcannons)
Warlock (Fist plus psychic lance)
2x Revenant (pulsars)
3x Knights

Swapped out the Twins for a second Phantom and did a lot of damage with them while pushing forward very aggressively. I did miss the sonic lances for their maneuverable 8BP attack when I had to dig out some infantry and failed an assault against them with knights. The main reason was to actually use some of the other titan weapons and see how they stood up.

B.Lance plus T.Cannon is very effective vs mech infantry as well as against anything with RA. Obviously it is much less effective when there are no vehicles to shoot but I find that comes up much less often than not having an infantry target does.

Twin starcannons were excellent. The volume of fire makes up for things getting a save and by being so deadly to infantry they force the opponent to bunch up in cover where the BP weapons can flatten whole formations. In the future I would pair this with a pure BP unit like Sonic Revs.


General Thoughts

After these games and reading other reports I think the Warlock should get the SC option back. When its out there it is almost always BTS and it tends to be up in front so the Invulnerable save will help it more than it does a Phantom.

War walkers haven't worked for me all that much yet but I feel like they still have a place in the list.

Guards/Lords are going out in the next list. They are much too slow and I feel like their inclusion steps on the toes of the Iyanden list. And without an Avatar to lead them into battle they tend to fail precisely when they are needed.

Knights need some work on how their saves go but that's a force wide discussion that I can't do much about in this list. I can add in a second statline of them though so that there is some more variety in the list since the guard/lord formations are being cut. I'm leaning toward a CC option.

Thanks for the games...

Spoke to Roboshadow about the Knights saves and suggested that the Reinforce Armour be dropped...So kept the 5+ and 5+ inv save, like the Tau Deflector shield. I like to see the Knights play tested without RA and see how it goes..

Hopefully we get some games in soon...

I will try those stats out myself as well.

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Regards
Greg

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Not against change, so long as it done fairly and no one is left behind....

I'm human and not a !@#$%^# Robot..

Has anyone written a 3k list... let alone even played a 3k game with this list?

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Consul Avenging Angel has given the list 2 / 3 games at 3k. Much more difficult to play and War Walkers are needed to give an activation hike if nothing else.

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NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

Looks like 4 games at 3000 points..Tim has confirmed 2 of those and I'm pretty sure stevecoke 2 games are set at 3K and I'm sure he will let us know if that was not the case....

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Regards
Greg

*************************************************

Not against change, so long as it done fairly and no one is left behind....

I'm human and not a !@#$%^# Robot..

I've played CAA twice and 3k I think? And you, once?

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

At 3k this list is in a similar bind as the Minervan list in that it has expensive core formations and only 2 support options per. But its turned up because to use the 650pt formation you need a 750pt gatekeeper.

The most activations you can get is with
Phantom
Rev Twins
4x WW
2x Nightwing
Wraithship

This leaves 50pts for the SC or for weapon upgrades. Once the Flyers are available as pairs you could squeeze another activation by giving up the SC/upgrades.

We could make some more room by removing or easing the restriction on Rev Twins though in that case they need to lose the Spirit Stone option. If anyone wants to test a list that's just 3 pairs and 3 solos (3k exactly) feel free. I'll try to do it next weekend myself. That should give a feel for how irritating it would be to play at the most extreme end.

Another swarm that would allow at 3k is 3 pairs + 5 WWs. I'm not sure which would be a tougher nut to crack so I can try both.

Yeah, I played 2 games at 3k

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Played with this list twice, both times against all-titan Legio Gryphonicus forces. Both games were horrible slaughters of the Legio with a total of 2 dead Titans on my side. My opponent, usually a very chill guy, just gave up at the end of the second game. I'll post more fully by Friday this week, as it's gonna be an insanely busy week, but we did come up with a couple of things:

Make the Holofield a little weaker. Not a popular view, I am sure, but there may have to be a way to make the holofield a tiny bit less powerful. At one point, a Phantom was hit by a total of 17 las-blasters (3 sets of 6, sustained fire). The Holofield saved 15. The armor saved one, the RA saved the other.

Bring back the penalty for double weapons. If I have two Bright Lances on a Phantom, I think a 25 point penalty makes sense. Otherwise, she eats medium Imperial titans like they were sushi.

Should Holofields be more susceptible to barrage weapons? My honorable opponent made a point that this makes sense fluffwise and unsucks them a little.

BTW, these were 3K games with tournament conditions, but I think more terrain should be mandatory.

Anyways, never take Warhound packs up alone and unsupported against three Phantoms who are just chillin'.....