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Yme-Loc Craftworld 4.2

 Post subject: Re: Yme-Loc Craftworld 4.2
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:14 pm 
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Quote:
Is the Myrmeara list even being developed anymore?
How come Teh EpicUk list is a tank list and this one isn't? Usuallty theres some similarities between the lists.
Do we need a tank list, a titan list AND a WE list for the Eldar??


I think this has come about by new fluff.

When Chroma wrote the first Yme-Loc list, the only fluff was from Warhammer 40k 4th edition - "The Eldar of Yme-Loc are talented artisans, and their armies are supported by powerful grav tanks and Titans."

Since then, Warhammer 40k 6th edition added - "Yme-Loc boasts many weaponsmiths who supply its warhosts with Engines of Vaul and lithe titans that dwarf the Gargants of the Orks and the God-machines of the Imperium. Though it is not openly spoken of, the craftworld also possesses an arcane engine of destruction that can destroy a continent in a single night."

I don't know - is that retcon of fluff or just a refinement?

Regards

Harry


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 Post subject: Re: Yme-Loc Craftworld 4.2
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:20 pm 
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Its just pure sales-talk
;D


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 Post subject: Re: Yme-Loc Craftworld 4.2
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:21 pm 
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lol - too correct!


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 Post subject: Re: Yme-Loc Craftworld 4.2
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:21 pm 
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HI thanks for stepping forward and taking up the mantle of this list.

I think that we need to look at focusing on the Titans and possibly dropping the EoV from the core choices otherwise this is going to be a difficult list to test and balance.

I would also be tempted to drop Aspect Warriors which would again help focus the list and make the list easier to balance.

Final thing for now, the Titan power fist, has it lost it's shooting or is this just an omission?

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 Post subject: Re: Yme-Loc Craftworld 4.2
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:47 pm 
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Tiny-Tim wrote:
I think that we need to look at focusing on the Titans and possibly dropping the EoV from the core choices otherwise this is going to be a difficult list to test and balance.

I would also be tempted to drop Aspect Warriors which would again help focus the list and make the list easier to balance.


As being the 'first' of the naysayers in the thread, I hope that nobody has taken offense to anything or felt that I was dishing out undue criticism. I think there's room for more focused lists that have many different themes, but as was explained in other threads (I think I recall it most in the Adeptus Astartes 'codex' list) list development is as much about what the army doesn't take as it is about what new stuff they get.

I feel that more units need to be culled from the list - NOT because fluff suggests they never field them, but to maintain a clarity of focus on the intended target of the list and to avoid the newly developed list becoming a catch-all that can basically do everything. That'll also have the added advantage of making things easier to test and balance and help allay the concerns of dedicated tournament players too.

I would like to hear the reasonings behind the current changes and where Roboshadow feels the strengths and weaknesses lie with the list as it stands now, because in my admittedly very limited experience I don't see any hope that this list could be accepted. Personally I feel it's overly permissive and too open options-wise, needing a lot of cutting back before the community as a whole will take it forward. Ginger makes some excellent points on specifics that could be withdrawn to maintain more focus (and offer some balance for all the new, cool things the list should have).

Myself, I would certainly start with removing dismounted Guardian and aspect squads (handwave that they crew all the WEs instead) and culling the Vampires completely. I also wonder about reducing aspects even further by limiting them to a formation of 4, plus vehicles. Titans should be either warhost with options or it has to move back to the 33% section, I see no possibility for acceptance with the titans remaining there while this many further options are available to the list.


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 Post subject: Re: Yme-Loc Craftworld 4.2
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:40 am 
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Quote:
Personally I feel it's overly permissive and too open options-wise, needing a lot of cutting back before the community as a whole will take it forward.

DoomKitten, where would you start the cutting? Just some spitballing -

Night Spinners - there job is done by Void Spinners (a War-engine)

Warwalkers - don’t seem like a neat fit and just leave scouting to Hornets.

Swords of Vaul - their job (and fire prisms) are done by Scorpions (a War-engine). This does however leave the only ground based AA on either Titans or Cobras. Would that be a problem? I know a lot of peeps are very fond of their Swords of Vaul though…. ;D

Windrider Troupe - Go down the path of the EpicUK and limit it to only Vypers.

Phoenix Bombers - their job (the ground attack 'job', has anyone ever intercepted with them?) is done by Vampire Hunters (a War-engine).

Quote:
Myself, I would certainly start with removing dismounted Guardian and aspect squads (handwave that they crew all the WEs instead)

I’m quite keen on dismounted Guardians and Aspects so as to make Storm Serpents relevant. Maybe a special rule like the Dark Eldar or Ork Speed Freak’s transport rule? Something that means they either have to come mounted, through a webway portal or in a Vampire Raider?

Quote:
I also wonder about reducing aspects even further by limiting them to a formation of 4, plus vehicles.

That would certainly leave the army with one less dedicated ‘engage’ formation. 4 stand Aspects can be quite brittle. Obviously titans and Guardians can still fill this role.

Regards

Harry


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 Post subject: Re: Yme-Loc Craftworld 4.2
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:41 am 
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Hi all

Thank you for your thoughts and ideas.

i still believe that a war engine focus list is the way to go and that's the path i will be following.

Thank you again

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 Post subject: Re: Yme-Loc Craftworld 4.2
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:02 pm 
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Think that's fine and it's your call anyway.

Perhaps we can flesh out the play style of the army. As others have intimated, there is a risk of the list being the "everything" list so it's good to have a focus on how you expect the army to play on the table. For instance the biel tan usually focus on key well timed high power engagements but do not tend to hold ground for long. I imagine yme loc would be best suited to a ranged shooting approach whose weakness is assaults?

Once you have a focussed play style then you can start culling things that do not fit the theme and style, such as all the engagement formations and infantry generally. I imagine a difficulty early on is that you want the army to have lots of titans, war engines with powerful shooting and also still be good at engagement from the webway. I think something will have to give.

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 Post subject: Re: Yme-Loc Craftworld 4.2
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:05 am 
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Battle report..

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=31616

OK, some of tweaks.. I have suggested to roboshadow..

Tweaks to the Yme-loc..

1. Add following rule.. All infantry units in Guardian formations (apart from Jetbikes and vipers) must be transported in Wave Serpents, or be entering play via a Webway Portal or (Vampire), (I'm still looking at weather to drop this one as a disadvantage..).
2. Up the points to 150 on the guardian’s(this includes the farseer character and another 25 points since it's, well a W/E engine list..)
3. Drop the Aspects..
4. Up the points on the EoV Warhost to 300
5. Drop the War Walker and leave the hornet as the main recon..
6. Move the Wraith Knight to Warhost section..
7. Move the Phantom Titan to support and go back to standard weapon weapon fit.
8. 0-1 per 1,500pts for Void Spinner or up the number of EoVW you need to field one..or change the BP from 3 to 2..
9. Move the WARLOCK back to 1/3 section..
10. Drop the Phoenix bomber..

Just my two cent worth....

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 Post subject: Re: Yme-Loc Craftworld 4.2
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:11 am 
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Another battle report up...

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=31631

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 Post subject: Re: Yme-Loc Craftworld 4.2
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:59 pm 
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Greg

A penny for your thoughts (and a pound of interjecting by me!)?

I've read your last couple of reports where you've gone the 'Single EoV Spam', which I was going to try out this weekend I must admit.

1. Add following rule.. All infantry units in Guardian formations (apart from Jetbikes and vipers) must be transported in Wave Serpents, or be entering play via a Webway Portal or (Vampire), (I'm still looking at weather to drop this one as a disadvantage..).

- I like this idea. Still use Guardians through Webways (Storm Serpents) but no dismounted option.

2. Up the points to 150 on the guardian’s(this includes the farseer character and another 25 points since it's, well a W/E engine list..)

- I like this as well. Without Rangers or Warwalkers, this pretty much removes a lot of capability to 'activation spam'. However, if some type of 'must take transport/webway rule' is added, this already boosts the formation cost way beyond 'activation spam' status. I suppose you could still do three out of a Webway portal though?

3. Drop the Aspects..

- Really? Thoughts on why? Just trimming clutter, or something else? Personally I'd rather see Guardians go that Aspects.

4. Up the points on the EoV Warhost to 300

- Why the increase? I think the single EoV spam is a bit obnoxious. Not 'OP' or broken, it just doesn't sit well with me. Maybe another solution is make the Warhost two EoV for 450 points (plus one for 200 points) and make singles be taken only from the Troupe section? Maybe even reduce the whole troupe section to two troupes per Warhost then?

5. Drop the War Walker and leave the hornet as the main recon..

- No issue here. Trimming the fat - makes sense.

6. Move the Wraith Knight to Warhost section..

- I haven't even thought about these yet other then conversion ideas, so I'll leave that one to you....

7. Move the Phantom Titan to support and go back to standard weapon weapon fit.

- I think the EoV and Titans in the Warhost section really make this a much different list to other eldar lists. What is your thoughts behind this? I don't see the need for the additional weapons and would prefer to see them left to a dedicated Titan List. If that list ever comes to fruition, and they're balanced, look at retrofitting them in the future.

8. 0-1 per 1,500pts for Void Spinner or up the number of EoVW you need to field one..or change the BP from 3 to 2..

- Not sure what your intent is here? No similar restriction in the BT list, and I've never seen (and I've also had a bit of a look through the EpicUK Tournament Lists) and I can't say I've seen more then two. Is this a thing in some metas?

9. Move the WARLOCK back to 1/3 section..

- See my thoughts on Phantom Titans. :tut

10. Drop the Phoenix bomber..

- No issues. Trimming the fat - makes sense. Weez have Vampire Hunters.... ;D

Anyway, money where my mouth is. I have a couple of games lined up later in the week/weekend and I was going to do Single EoV Spam. It really DOESN"T interest me at all, and as I've said above I think it should be limited. If RS or you would like this concept stress tested more, please let me know though.

I'm going to try a few builds with multiple Titans in the Warhost section before (if) it gets removed to see how it goes and what my opponents thoughts are. As I've said, this concept and theme really appeals to me and makes this a very different list to other eldar lists. Whether it can be balanced though..... :-\

Regards

Harry


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 Post subject: Re: Yme-Loc Craftworld 4.2
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:51 am 
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Morning Harry,

Message from RS, could you please do some testing with multi titans, aspect and Voild spinners..please..

Ok onto the others.. I should change the word tweak to something else... ;D

1) dropping aspects, it more of Just trimming clutter..

2) Phantom/warlock again balancing aspect, but with the weapons been standard, it maybe easier, but it's still going to be hard..

3) EoV points increase on a single W/E is something that could be looked at, and not just the increase in size of the EoV, both have their disadvantages/advantages..

4) Void Spinner just more ideas on the table, don't thing it should be limited to 1 per army....

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 Post subject: Re: Yme-Loc Craftworld 4.2
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:26 am 
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Yme-Loc V Scions of Iron Playtest

http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=31670

Titan heavy as RS requested. Two more to come this weekend.

Regards

Harry


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 Post subject: Re: Yme-Loc Craftworld 4.2
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:37 am 
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Second game versus Scions of Iron here -

http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=31672

Hope this is helpful RS.

Regards

Harry


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 Post subject: Re: Yme-Loc Craftworld 4.2
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:27 pm 
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Another battle report...

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=31673

Yme-Loc Vs Legio Gryphonicus (NetEA v3.24 *APPROVED*)

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