Graf_Spee wrote:
guys, I have serious concerns about this list.
i can't shake the feeling that it allows for near unbeatable configurations paired up with somewhat flawes special rules, uberpowerful troops and a mishapen armour concept.
TBH I have never disguised the general concerns about the potential power of the list in the many years that I have been associated with it. That said, I believe we are getting closer to something that is playable. One thing to remember is that most lists have been considered way OTT at least sometime in their life. Many / most have deliberate weaknesses built into them that can be exploited by the correct tactics, and occasionally a different strategy.
In the case of the Harlies, the key weaknesses are limited numbers, poor / absent FF capabilities, virtually no firepower, limited strategic mobility and relatively high cost. Yes these can be offset through the addition of Eldar 'allies', though even there the player is usually faced with significant choices on which elements to use or omit in order to pursue a particular strategy. And even then the Harlies present the choice of being used as pure assault troops or more expensive objective contesters / controllers (don't forget that the "standard" tournament game is about the strategic Objectives).
Note, I am already considering whether we need to restrict the Harlie's use of the Webway, forcing the player to have two 'gates relatively close together to allow them to escape. This is both more expensive and tactically harder to achieve.
Graf_Spee wrote:
1. the veil of tears is over complicated imho and pratically radiates frustration of every player running against it. it will unequally discriminate and will make marines almost useless due to their low numbers, wehreas orks with grots face no serious outcome.
also what will happen in an assault when there are less oponents then the veil affects in its roll?
This is a
very draft attempt at something that is unique to E:A. There are several aims behind the rule.
- It makes the Harlies slightly less destructive; the broken enemy can often be rallied to fight again.
- It gives the Harlie player the choice to remove an Inspiring enemy unit from the assault, but leaving it in the game . . .
- It directs the Harlies more against larger enemy formations reducing the impact of the enemy numbers.
- In doing so, it should also force the player to be more discriminating in their use.
Against small formations, the 'assault' could go straight to the resolution where the superior Harlie numbers (and possibly Inspiring) will leave the Harlies at least 2+ ahead. Against Grots, Harlie assaults can actually become more effective by 'removing' them from the effects of the assault.
Graf_Spee wrote:
2. holofields
this has bee raised quite a few times by now, and although i agree that harlies should have some kind of protection vs macro, reinforced armour definetedly isn't the way to go.
As I said at the start of the thread, nothing is set in stone. If the general view is that this is the way to go, then it will be added
- I have not completely dismissed Holofields, though a 3+ / 5+ save is IMO probably OTT
- Having a 5+ Invulnerable save is a slight boost over 5+ RA, though is slightly more 'fluffy' as you say.
What do others think?
Finally, perhaps everyone could post some "abusive" lists for us to consider and try out?