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Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1

 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:49 am 
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OK, that makes sense.

Yes, the double BTS and inability of the Harlequins to grab objectives without leaders does make those builds somewhat 'interesting'. I suppose you could risk not taking leaders with the Harlies, but the one game you lose because you realise your unit next to the opponents blitz can't take it would probably put you off for good.

Not too difficult to fix, though:

Biel-Tan Craftworld (Epic-UK v121013)
==================================================

WRAITHGATE [50]

AVATAR [0]

GUARDIAN WARHOST [150]
Farseer, 7 Guardians

GUARDIAN WARHOST [150]
Farseer, 7 Guardians

ASPECT WARRIOR WARHOST [400]
Autarch, Exarch, 8 Warp Spider

VAMPIRE RAIDER [200]

VAMPIRE RAIDER [200]

VOID SPINNER [275]

ENGINES OF VAUL TROUPE [250]
Storm Serpent

RANGER TROUPE [100]
4 Ranger

FALCON TROUPE [250]
3 Falcon, 2 Firestorms

FALCON TROUPE [250]
3 Falcon, 2 Firestorms

Mimes [350]
5 Mimes, Shadowseer

Harlequin Troupe [375]
5 Harlequins, Troupe Leader


Dark Eldar

Dark Eldar (EpicUK V.10042013)
==================================================

KABAL COTERIE [400]
4 Incubi, 1 Archon character, Warriors, Incubi, Raiders, Venoms

WEBWAY PORTAL [50]

PORTABLE WEBWAY PORTAL [50]

SLAVEBRINGER [200]

VOIDRAVEN BOMBERS [225]
2 Voidravens

VOIDRAVEN BOMBERS [225]
2 Voidravens

HEAVY BARGE [250]
1 Vessel of Pain

HEAVY BARGE [250]
1 Vessel of Pain

KABAL SYNDICATE [200]
6 Warriors, Raiders

KABAL SYNDICATE [200]
6 Warriors, Raiders

KABAL SYNDICATE [225]
6 Warriors, Venoms, Raiders

Mimes [350]
5 Mimes, Shadowseer

Harlequin Troupe [375]
5 Harlequins, Troupe Leader

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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:28 am 
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Battle report up....

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=31797

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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:53 am 
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A very interesting read, thanks for the report.
I am surprised that the first Mimic assault succeeded against the SHT company, which must have cramped your plans somewhat. Presumably the initial deployment was intended to protect the weaker formations from teleported assaults by the Mimics. The fragility of these supporting formations was amply demonstrated later on.

A small point, but since the Harlies did not take a Shadowseer, they did not have any unit with Farsight on the table, so were not entitled to a second retain.

I agree that Cegorach is likely to give lower initiative opponents more difficulties especially when played this aggressively. What do you think of the use of Falcon transports with the Harlies, are they too good?


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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:34 am 
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Thanks for reading...

Opps.....Just great, we went into auto mode, didn't even think :{[]

I take the falcons to give the force some AT shoots, since its all HGM...I think they do their job, but if you have to many, then they will effect the activation count, since you need more to transport the formation..Although I haven't tried the venom yet... so that may off set some of the cost and still give you the mobility...I will need to tweak the list and add mix of venom's and Falcons and see how I go..

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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:38 am 
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Take two

Another BATTLE report...

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=31799

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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:31 am 
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Another report... ;D

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=31804

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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:30 pm 
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Thanks for the report - another interesting though somewhat gruelling game ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:00 pm 
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Another report, Harlequins Vs Marines Here

Another hard fought game, that did raise one question:-
Q. Can the Shadowseer influence enemy units if he is inside a transport?
A. No. He needs to be able to 'talk' to the enemy, which is one reason why he cannot affect War Engines and titans

We both think DE forces as Allies or the main army could be very interesting as there are obvious synergies, not least with the portable Wraithgate which would allow multiple Harlequin formations to exit and possibly re-enter. That said, the Scourges would obviously have a really big target on their back :)


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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:41 am 
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Just thinking about the shadowseer a bit, he seems a bit fiddly rules wise and could do with simplifying, the scout option seems a bit of an awkward sticking plaster solution. He also doesn't fit as well as he should with e.g. mimes since his own unit ends up not fighting. I also think perhaps as much cost as possible needs to be removed without impacting on the theme (eg still need to be powerful enough to win in small numbers).

Could maybe just let him choose who to enthral, but rather than completely taking them out of action just stops them countercharging? It may not seem a huge benefit but if you think about it, harlies will normally be pretty good against FF specialists anyway and will be basing them, and it is against other CC specialists that they need help to tip the balance and keep some units alive. Against such units it would enable them to base a couple of units without having to face up to the full force that would normally be free to countercharge.

Anyway just a thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:09 am 
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Hi Kyrt and thanks for the thoughts

I agree the Shadowseer takes some getting used to. I find it easiest to lay the enthralled units on their side, or even to remove them temporarily (which is the end result anyway).

Scout was added to allow the Shadowseer to move further away from his friends, which i agree is a sort of 'sticking plaster' but seems necessary to clarify the situation in the assault (otherwise we are measuring millimetres which is fiddly).

And the Shadowseer stats have been revised to make him a character for 50 points. He has a FF attack which means he can still fight in formations other than the Mimes (which I agree is a slight drawback, though infiltrate does allow you to position him against 2x units allowing him to attack the 2nd if he only enthralls one of them). He also has Farsight, enabling the 2nd retain if necessary (though he cannot summon the Avatar; only Gardian Farseers do this). In Mimes he is most useful in excluding dangerous enemy units and in reducing the enemy formation numbers, though I agree it is a trade-off

Like I said in the report, the Shadowseer is a bit of a double edged weapon in that he brings out benefits and penalties, so needs to be handled carefully ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:55 am 
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Don't think it's an issue for a unit to have benefits and penalties, or be hars to use, that's not my point. It's the clunky rule and micro positioning required that I just find odd, it detracts from the suspension of disbelief. Feels too "fan rule" and not very epic is all. Most specialist rules in epic are in essence simple but characterful - change something basic that affects the way things work in an important way.

The cost is a separate issue, 50 might be cheaper than 75 or 100 (and i meant 100 for 2 as you took in the report) but it is still an expensive character in a very expensive formation.

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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:36 am 
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E:A kicks out a lot of situations where players are forced to measure in millimetres - I was trying to remove one instance through adding scout. This allows the player greater latitude in positioning the Shadowseer, so that it becomes more obvious which units are enthralled, and consequently less 'clunky'.

However, at present I am more concerned with the overall balance of the list. The Harlies sit at the edge of what can be portrayed by the E:A game mechanics. This is one of the reasons why they have been given so many inherent weaknesses and probably work best with allies to overcome these. In general they work well under their own terms, the issue is whether it is possible to use appropriate strategies, tactics, formation compositions and combinations to overcome their weaknesses and their opponents.


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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:56 am 
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Battle report up...

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=31862

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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:25 pm 
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Thanks for the 'cagey' report :)

Getting the strategy and tactics right is evidently key for the Harlies, while holding back and keeping them at arm's length is the main aim for most opponents. In this case, both armies major on CC assaults, though the Orks also possess units with considerable firepower that the Harlies generally lack.

Limited numbers mean that you must get the most out of every move throughout the game, ideally assaulting / destroying an enemy formation without being destroyed by counter-attacks, which is often hard to achieve. Finding the correct positioning of these forces is also key, because they need to find locations that are both relatively safe from the enemy, while being ideal for subsequent operations.

I also agree that delaying the deployment of the Mimes seems to be way to go, though in armies with mobile wraithgates, I wonder whether they might work better using the webway rather than teleporting.


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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:00 am 
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Can't disagree with the above..

One reason for holding back was the Firepower, yeah not highly accurate,but still..hunk of lead is still a hunk of lead... :)

Using mobile wraith-gate might be better, then teleporting..Since you have the ability to pop back into the gate and if the gate survives, move it to another location next turn and pop back out with mimics...so could be real pain..

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