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Ulthwé Craftworld v4.2 *revitalized*

 Post subject: Re: Ulthwé Craftworld v4.2 *revitalized*
PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:44 pm 
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geez.. after being blocked from the forum I have back my access! yeah!

thank you cybershadow :)

will post alternativ list approach shortly


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 Post subject: Re: Ulthwé Craftworld v4.2 *revitalized*
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:29 am 
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welcome back... :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Ulthwé Craftworld v4.2 *revitalized*
PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:14 am 
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finally found some to write some things down in addition to just uploading a new version.

after reviewing my own pitiful 4 games and the batreps PFE200 did upon his own games and forum comments I'd like to point out a view things.

1. the list at it's cuurent stage is quite balanced and the least "op" one imo
2. the list at strategy 4 works fine
3. the special rule on the 1+ initiative for BGWH when both farseers are alive and onboard also works fine (so no auto retain out of webways, stormserpents) but the special rule still is somewhat "not wanted"
4. compared to other eldar list ulthwe lacks offensive power
5. the list can be a very high activation count army
6. the list with heavy focus on small guardian formations lacks sexiness (substantially) when compared to BT or Siam Hann, Iyanden, etc so the builds are somewhat boring

various things croosed my mind to attend those negatives and not to bog down too much on the positives. mainly I want Ulthwe to be a considerable option to BT and the other list but at the same time not to unbalance things.

so without further ado there is time for some change. please note that this will not be the next version but an alternative to the current one.

Task:
I would like to have you to have a quick look and tell which one looks more attractive to you and what would be your mayor concerns with it. I'd greatly appriciate if you could compare those concerns with one or two other eldar lists of your liking and maybe also give a personal ranking of lists in favour.

summary:
1. in order to bring in the changes I intend the 1+ initiative special rule on the BGWH will go. All BGWH will be ini 2+
2. this one is borrowed from PFE200: The BGWH formation that the seer council is part of has ini 1+ as long as the seer council is alive (i really like that one)
3. in order not to bog down the Ulthwe on dimished initiative the strategy will be raised again to +5 as all those farseers mus have some impact on the predictive powers as overall battle plans are concerned. and frankly slogging around with ini 2+ guardians is somewhat unattractive if the chances are only marginally higher to outwit orks on strategy.
4. with Ulthwe being heavily reliant upon guardians we need to buff their only core choice the BGWH
--> multiple upgrades are added in order to customize your BGWH to your own liking (additional guardians, transport options, war walkers)
5. another thought is to think about guardian defender or storm units with swapped ff/cc but I discarded that idea for the moment as I do not want to bring in a new type of unit. but still open for discussion of course


please find the pdf list her / link to 1st page Ulthwe list overview
lhttp://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=31524&p=596124#p596124

.


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 Post subject: Re: Ulthwé Craftworld v4.2 *revitalized*
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:16 pm 
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To me Ulthwe is the Guardian List so this looks good to me. I'll have to play it to be sure of the various widgets but I'm excited. ^^


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 Post subject: Re: Ulthwé Craftworld v4.2 *revitalized*
PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:46 pm 
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Graf_Spee wrote:
4. with Ulthwe being heavily reliant upon guardians we need to buff their only core choice the BGWH
--> multiple upgrades are added in order to customize your BGWH to your own liking (additional guardians, transport options, war walkers)

What about allowing some jet bikes in there. Say swapping a few (up to 2 or maybe 4?) guardians for jetbikes
for a few points. Allow a slightly cheaper mechanised version of the Black Guardians if the rest in Wave Serpents.
Or just add them on.

Upgrades always cut you back on activations so the upgrades to the basic Guardian Warhost are less attractive.
Swapping some stands out (perhaps for a small points surcharge) would be more attractive to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Ulthwé Craftworld v4.2 *revitalized*
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:04 am 
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Thanks for the feedback, scarik. Well appreciated.


@Andrew:
That is actually a good suggestion. I had yetbikes/vyoers in when fiddling aroind but only as upgrades and for exactly the same reason as they would be a costly upgrade I decided to skip them. But as swapping option BG yetbikes actually would make sense. But then I would need to swap two guardians for one bike. But with the general upgrade option of extra guardians for low cost this is actually quite neat.

Good suggestion, mate! Added to my tweak list for the next alternative list change.

:)


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 Post subject: Re: Ulthwé Craftworld v4.2 *revitalized*
PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:00 pm 
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after incorporation of andrews idea the formation would look like this:

Quote:
Formation:
Black Guardian Warhost 175pts

Units:
Two Farseer units and six Guardian units.
Up to three Guardians may be replaced with
Heavy Weapon Platforms.

Extras:
Add two Eldar guardian units for +25 points
Add four Eldar guardian units (one may be exchanged for a Heavy Weapon Platform) for +50 points
Replace up to 6 Guardian units with Jetbike/Vyper units on a 2:1 basis for free Add between two and three Eldar Wraithguard units for +50 points each
Add three Eldar Wraithlords units +175 points
Add enough Wave Serpents or Falcons to a formation consisting of only Farseer, Guardians, Heavy Weapon Platform, Seer Council, Wraithguard, Jetbike or Vyper units to transport the whole formation for +50 points each
Add 3 War Walker for +100 points
Add Three Support Weapon Platforms for +50 points
Replace one Farseer with Seer Council for +100, one per army



rather longish but fully customizable around guardians


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 Post subject: Re: Ulthwé Craftworld v4.2 *revitalized*
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:21 am 
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So a couple of combinations attract my attention:

2 Farseers, Wave Serpent, 3 Jet bikes, for 225 points.

2 Farseers, 2 Wraithguard, 3 Wave Serpents, 2 Jet Bikes, for 425 points.

2 Farseers, 12 Guardians, for 250 points.

Seem OK, but were they your intention?


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 Post subject: Re: Ulthwé Craftworld v4.2 *revitalized*
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:10 pm 
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Not the 12 guardians! There should be an "or" between the option of 2 and 4 extra stands. So either 2 or 4. Not both. Will correct.

And your second choice is missing 2 guardians if you swap only 4 for 2 jetbikes. Or it should be 3 jetbikes. Quite costly though.

Your first option is fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Ulthwé Craftworld v4.2 *revitalized*
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:37 pm 
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Yes, did mean 3 Jet Bikes - swapped it around a couple of times and forgot to amend that figure.
In terms of cost it does not compare to unfavourably with a standard mechanised guardian formation.
Has some 15 cm MW firepower and can shift 35 cm on a consolidate and still provide FF support.

2 Farseers, 2 Wraithguard, 3 Wave Serpents, 3 Jet Bikes, for 425 points.

2 Farseers, 6 Guardians, 4 Wave Serpents, for 375 points

although the economy versions are rather less:

2 Farseers, 2 Guardians, 2 Wave Serpents, 2 Jet Bikes, for 275 points.
2 Farseers, Wave Serpent, 3 Jet bikes, for 225 points.


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 Post subject: Re: Ulthwé Craftworld v4.2 *revitalized*
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:05 am 
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Batrep....

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=32504

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