I have to say (speaking as a BT elder player) the revenants are OP as they are. I usually don't take them in friendlies. 70cm jump pack move, with 8x 3(4)+ MW, 3+ save is crazy. Combined with hit/run tactics its just not fun. I've lost count of the BTS formations - leman russ, reavers, dominatrix, etc - they have decimated without even taking a hit.

Don't forget inbuilt AA

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Hey guys,
First post file has been updated, please note the following for the 4.2.1 release.

the change log:
Quote:
+ general typos and stream lining wording in ref sheet, eg "D" instead of disrupt, "L" instead of Lance etc.
+ Changed Revenant titans sonic lance to 2BP, D and 45cm
+ Guardians changed to 175 points and limited 0-1 per 1500pts
+ Increased the points of Inspiring to 100pts
+ Tremor Cannon changed to 0-1 option per titan formation, lost IC and D
+ D-Cannon changed to 0-1 option per titan formation
+ Fusion Lance changed to 0-1 option per titan formation
+ Star cannon changed to 25pts
+ Titan Bright lance changed to 50pts
+ Increased the points on the Titan Pulsar from 50 to 75
+ Single Revenant formations changed to 0-1 per 3,000pts
+ Added single weapon system upgrade (25pts) required per battle titan formation that has a pair of the same weapons. (Revenants exempt)
+ Revenant Pulse Laser increased to 25points each
+ Added Reaper cannon as a Scout Titan Weapon

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The plan moving forward from the 4.2.1 release.

I'm contemplating adding 1-3 Battle Titan Weapons (BTW) to help add further variety and builds to the list in an effort to avoid as much cookie cutter style lists as possible.
This could also mean we could look at adding perhaps 1 further Scout Titan Weapon (STW).

I'm really hoping for suggestions at this point for weapon names / points & stats. Presently i'm meandering around this as a possible BTW...
Titan Vibro Cannon, BTW, 45cm, 4x MW3+ @ 75points

Thoughts gents?

Aside from that, but still tied to moving forward. I'd really like to see the list you can build, as competitive as possible with the 4.2.1 so i can gauge how the community is receiving the list.

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More Titan weapons sound good. But doesn't the list already have a fair number of 45cm MW3+ weapons? What about something more outside the box, along the lines of the ATML Corvus assault pod or the landing platform: some sort of non-weapon bonus.

A portable Webway? Some kind of Psychic amplifier that boosts farseer powers? What about a weapon that allows the avatar to summoned one extra time per game.
Just throwing out bizarre things now!

Yep, and those rockets inflict a nice 4 standard hits to strip a few void shields off before the MW gets stuck in!

By the way, I'd like to lend my support to the adding of wraith knights into the list - the fluff has moved on (personally IMHO an improvement over the dino herders of old) and it would be good to get the old models out.

A few non-standard titan battle weapons. I tried to concoct rules that would be different from the existing selection, be eldar-ish and be easily converted from existing bitz from the 40K range

Sword of Khaine - contains a literal shard of the lost god
EA+3, TK(1). May summon the Avatar +1 extra time. The titan counts as a spiritseer or farseer for the purposes of placing the Avatar.

Titan Scattershield - a larger version of the Wraithknight sheild.
EA+2, +1 DC, Increases Armour save to 4+

Webway cannon - a portable link to the webway
45cm BP3 Disrupt, counts as a Webway Portal.

Psychic Resonator (Warlock Titan Only) - containing a choir of the most powerful farseer spirits, this weapon can target the enemy's minds directly.
45cm, 4x AP4+/AT4+, disrupt, Sniper

I think we've got a reasonable number of weapons to balance at the moment, covering a variety of weapon types with the exclusion of long-range indirect (which is a good thing). I'm not sure we need more at present. If anything it's variety of price we need more.

Also not a fan of anything too weird, personally. The shield I can see (though please not three different effects at the same time, one is enough).

The portal also I can see as an upgrade, but would see this replacing a weapon not having one built in - currently seems a bit "have your cake and eat it" which is the complaint levelled at the power fist. A power fist + gate could be a good combo.

The extra avatar seems a bit random and messy - e.g. normally titans can't summon the avatar, now they can do it twice - does that include using a normal farseer for the first summon and a titan for the second? And the other way around? What about if the titan dies after summoning once - does a normal farseer get to summon a second time? Think this is too much.

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Thanks for the support, once the list is more stable it's something I would like to push for inclusion.

oh no! not the ants nest!



Thanks for your effort Ben, that's some really interesting stuff and a different take indeed.

But, i'm leaning towards what many have already said, Much of what Kyrt has said covers the reasons, so lets get the list stable there is a good variety, its going ot be a mater now of finding out what the appropriate points for them first.

Priorities! and an awful lot of K.I.S.S'ing....

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I'd echo some of the above comments. Basically the last is still very powerful so getting it into a better place before adding new weapons seems like a sensible idea.

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Isn't that half the problems though? There may be a fair number of weapon choices but it's really just :

Choice #1: OP shooty gun that ignores armour

Choice #2: OP shooty gun that ignores armour

Choice #3: OP shooty gun that ignores armour etc.

Where is the tactical variation? At least ATML allows you to do different things. What does Fir Iolarion bring to the game as a whole other than "It's Biel Tan with more of the shooty Titans and less everything else?

I had a look through the weapons and came to a different conclusion, I thought there was a mix of ranges and types, covering regular shooting, barrage, MW, TK, ignore cover etc. And assault of course with the power fist and lance. The only thing I thought was missing is long range indirect fire, which I am very glad about!

It's always possible to tone down some of the existing weapons - that's what balancing is about. For instance I don't think it's imperative the vibro cannon has MW, it could easily be regular AP/AT.

I'm not convinced the tactical variation of AMTL comes from having markedly different guns either. Surely imperial Titans are just good at everything, with awesome shooting (and more guns per Titan let's remember) - they simply have two flaws, their speed and numbers.

I don't see why the eldar Titan list should be beyond balance. The biggest Titan is still relatively weak/breakable in terms of DC, approximately equivalent armour to the imperials (which may be invulnerable but also no void shields) and it has only 2 big weapons. When you compare each eldar weapon to 2 imperial weapons, they really don't seem so bad.

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Well said kyrt, thanks!

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