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Eldar proposed Nerfs - discussion thread

 Post subject: Re: Eldar proposed Nerfs - discussion thread
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:40 am 
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I think overall the lists are very well balanced. Eldar have lots and lots of units, more than most other armies, which inevitably leads to huge variety in the comparisons made with respect to balance but I don't think much (if anything) needs to be done in terms of the overall power of the list.

Ulthwe do benefit a lot from SR5, but I actually like this distinction, what I have issue with is the 1+ initiative black guardians. That being said, black guardians can't take wraithguard or wraithlords so they are not too great deployed from a webway portal, which would otherwise be a great use of their 1+ retain. Likewise, using vampires negates their retain advantage. Also, the 4-strong aspect formation of NetEA Ulthwe is on the border of being not very useful, it is a totally different formation than in other Eldar lists. Six and eight are where it's at for me :)

I do like Warp Spiders, though I don't think they are categorically "the best" aspect. They are the best aspect when using a webway strategy, that is clear. When it comes to a mech strategy, for me that crown belongs to fire dragons, though dire avengers are also good. For air assaults, scorpions get a look in, as do shining spears because they give you an autarch on the board which is important to have with 2+ aircraft.

Avatar: this is a tough one to balance, for me it rarely actually does anything useful at all, and the situations where a FF drop is going to make any difference are pretty rare. In my games at least. In the end, anything at all will seem good when it is free :) In my games, the Avatar is used mainly to synergise with guardians, i.e. gives them the option of being the first activation on a 1+, whilst giving them a unit to absorb the first hits and enough attacks to allow them to take on a wider variety of targets.

Firestorm: they're pretty good but I'm not convinced they're too good. You need two formations of falcons to get enough - falcons are hardly useless, but it does act as a constraint on your army selection. Especially with NetEA fire prisms lacking AA.

Wraithguard: these totally transform guardians from being a formation that is only useful as a blitz guard into one that is able to assault. However that formation is 300 points, and you can only get three wraithguard, which means the formation is still vulnerable. Again, not convinced they are too good.

Phantom: this unit is poor, not enough attacks for a 750 point unit. TK is an improvement but not enough. Revenants are great, but holofields are not as great as they appear, quite easy to crossfire, break, and at 650 points they're expensive enough and almost always BTS. Better than 3 scorpions? Not so sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Eldar proposed Nerfs - discussion thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:47 am 
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As a long standing player of the game, I don't see any needs for a nurf to the lists. In fact here in Australia I can honestly say I have never seen the Phoenix bombers being used since the game has been out. I would say they are over priced.

Warp Spiders should have first strike as stated before as this fits with the fluff of the list and is meant to represent the phasing in and out of the unit.

I just don't see the list as being over powered at any stage.


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 Post subject: Re: Eldar proposed Nerfs - discussion thread
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:41 pm 
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It is a tricky topic, isn't it?

There's always more support for lowering points costs than there is for raising them. It's hard to imagine a ground-swell from players demanding that their units cost slightly more and their armies contain slightly less models :D

There has to be willingness for a little movement in that direction occasionally though, or you're stuck with what some people call "codex-creep" where each new release is a bit better than the last and the old are eclipsed by the new.


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 Post subject: Re: Eldar proposed Nerfs - discussion thread
PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:15 pm 
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Terminators and Warhounds both increased in price in the Codes Astartes list, so it doeshappen.....sometimes.


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 Post subject: Re: Eldar proposed Nerfs - discussion thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:22 am 
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The Holofield originally included a camouflage field so stationary things melded with the background.


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 Post subject: Re: Eldar proposed Nerfs - discussion thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:39 am 
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While I find Eldar to be the most pesky thing out there, I am not sure that I want them nerfed (I am not playing Eldar myself). The proposed Biel-Tan nerfs sound resonable (don't know about the other lists), but to be quite honest, I want them Eldar to be pesky and powerful. They're supposed to be, and that's what they always were in any 40K game (at least from my perspective). And I want to be forced to bring up my A game if I want to really win against Eldar.

Also, I'd like to be at least one original list to be on par with all the crazy (new) fan lists floating around (Squats, Necrons, ATML etc.) ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Eldar proposed Nerfs - discussion thread
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:48 pm 
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As i've faced Iyanden many times I agree that the wraithguard needs a Init change. The rest i don't know about.

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