Andrew_NZ wrote:
PFE100, in the recent game report had 5 of his smaller Wraithguard formations, FOUR of them mounted up in Wave Serpents. This mades a 8 unit strong, tough mobile formations for 575 points. This is also in the context of a large 5000 point game. The test with a "four strong" formation was actually a test of a wave serpent mounted wraithguard formation. With eight RA 4+ units in the formation I'd expect them to perform well.
The current standard mounts Wraithguard formation is 12 units for 650 points. This is a huge formation and given the capability of the units really bigger than it needs to be for most tactical situations. In my experience the mounted wraithguard are so scary and so costly that it is a realistic strategy to just avoid them, as you may well do if not equipped to take on a titan. Couple that with shooting out one or two transports and you have pulled their teeth (somewhat).
I'd happily play with the proposed smaller mounted wraithguard formations but 4 unit strong foot formations would be a non-starter. Consider a standard upgraded guardian formation (Farseer, 7 Guardians, 3 Wraithguard) for 300 points. Sorry, 4 Wraithguard plus a Spirit Seer for 375 points makes NO SENSE.
I was interested in tracking down what happened with PFE100's foot Spirit Host. This emerged from a Wraith Gate on (the extreme flank? in) turn two for an engagement backed up by 3 engines of vaul, then marched to sit on an objective turn three. It only just survived unbroken from ONE formation firing at it in turn 3. Not a lot of utility for a 375 points formation. But pretty well handled tactically, I must say.
I love my Iyanden army and would like to see it move towards approved. To do that requires convincing people WHO DON'T PLAY ELDAR and who REFUSE TO PLAY IYANDEN that all is now OK; that the list is balanced, . . . ? Identifying the objections more clearly might help? Some of it is to do with the Eldar special rules in general but, . . . .
The two (three?) things that strike me are:
(1) Automatic triple retain. This comes from Init 2+, upgraded with the Spirit Seer initiative rule (moving to Init 1+), and the Spirit Seer farsight rule (keeping Init 1+ on a retain and allowing an extra retain).
(2) Large Powerful Tough Fearless formations sitting on objectives. Webgate, Vampire, Wave Serpent, or Garrison, delivers them on location and the opponent can't shift them.
(3) Cheap extra supporting formations. The Living Few weak rule gives the impression of not restricting the number of supporting units. In fact even the proposed strong versions lets you pad with other formations anyway.
Solutions (?):
(1) Spirit Seer loses the +1 on initiative but retains Farsight. The Wraith Seer keeps both along with supreme commander.
(2) Reduce stats on the Wraithguard, eg, make Wraith Cannon, small arms, MW without the extra attack. This gets rid of 6 dice in assault, keeps it fluffy with a MW attack. Also gives an extra MW attack guided by the better perception of the world as provided by the Spirit Seer's vision, EA+1.
ALSO
Make the mounted option: remove 2 wraithguard and add 4 Wave Serpents for 100 points (or 150 points).
(3) Use 2 Troupes per War Host taken. Change The Living Few rule to match the Epic UK one.
I also think these are good suggestions and number 1 and 3 have been mentioned before. But do we really need to implement all three at the same time?
And just for the record: the Wave serpents have 5+ RA not 4+ and the Wraithguards cannot garrison...
How about if we try it out with 1 and 3 first without messing with the points. if we were to reduce the stats I think we need to lower the points. Not saying that it is a bad suggestion but that would need to affect all Eldar lists...
