Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

Craftworld Lugganath v1.21 (Inactive)

 Post subject: Craftworld Lugganath v1.21 (Inactive)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:51 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 722
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
This army is no longer being developed, but I'll keep this thread around for those that are interested.

A temporary Army Forge for v1.21 can be found @:
https://magnusdurr.github.io/snapfire/w ... nath_NETEA


Attachments:
Craftworld Lugganath v1,21.pdf [146.7 KiB]
Downloaded 25 times

_________________
AC for Traitor Titan Legion and Hive Fleet Dagon


Last edited by Mrdiealot on Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:40 pm, edited 17 times in total.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Craftworld Lugganath v1.0 Beta
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:28 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5465
Location: London, UK
As with your Corsairs list, this looks interesting but I will confine my comments to the Harlequins.
I still believe that these formations should cost a bit more than an Aspect Warhost to avoid them being an auto-include, and the formation unit number and composition should be adjusted accordingly. So, I still think that 225, 275 and even 300 points is too cheap for the Harlequin formations, even though they often need transport to become really effective.

And I would still like to see how the Harlies perform in this ‘allied’ role, especially since they do not provide good support for other formations, which is one of the key E:A game mechanics.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Craftworld Lugganath v1.0 Beta
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:48 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 722
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I think the Harlequin formations needs some playtesting before we can be sure what the "correct" cost is...

But I'll note that 6 Warpspiders usually cost 225pts. The question I'd pose is: Which Harlequin formations of 6 Harlequins are better than 6 Warpspiders (which are pretty darn good)? Especially considering that the Warpspiders got First Strike FF (and some Harlequins has got little to no FF at all)?

_________________
AC for Traitor Titan Legion and Hive Fleet Dagon


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Craftworld Lugganath v1.0 Beta
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:39 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5465
Location: London, UK
Getting 2x 3+ FS attacks with infiltrate, and the other Harlie rules, makes them better IMO (especially with RA that we have dropped for the moment). And then there are the other rules and characters, in particular the Solitaire, which makes the formation even more effective in assault - which is what they should be. The only question I have is whether they are sufficiently ‘survivable’ in assault to reflect the ‘fluff’.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Craftworld Lugganath v1.0 Beta
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:22 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:05 am
Posts: 992
Ginger wrote:
Getting 2x 3+ FS attacks with infiltrate, and the other Harlie rules, makes them better IMO (especially with RA that we have dropped for the moment). And then there are the other rules and characters, in particular the Solitaire, which makes the formation even more effective in assault - which is what they should be. The only question I have is whether they are sufficiently ‘survivable’ in assault to reflect the ‘fluff’.


I'm glad I'm not the only one immediately having a double-check at some of the excessive FS-infiltrate-2+EA-MW 'aspect warrior equivalents'.

Points boost, without question.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Craftworld Lugganath v1.0 Beta
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:47 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 722
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
The basic Harlequin (in CW Lugganath at least) has 1 First Strike attack and 1 normal one on 3+ in CC, so it's not that bad. And most Character Extra Attacks have Sniper at the moment.

It is also worth keeping in mind just how inferior CC is compared to FF under most scenarios. It's a lot harder to make useful engages, and if you run into Skimmers you're out of luck completely.

I'm sort of aiming to make the basic Harlequin formation about as useful as the Warp Spiders, and right now I think they are... Especially the thing that they can use already used portals. But this is a Beta after all, and the stats remain a suggestion.

_________________
AC for Traitor Titan Legion and Hive Fleet Dagon


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Craftworld Lugganath v1.0 Beta
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:20 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5465
Location: London, UK
Ah, OK
Well with a single FS attack, what you have then are essentially Howling Banshees with a minor buff to the armour. HBs are distinctly sub-par compared with WS precisely for the reasons you have outlined above:-
  • FF attacks with 4+ armour allows the WS to pick the weak spot in an enemy formation and concentrate an attack there.
  • by contrast, HBs must close to CC which enables more enemy units to engage them (from the target or support fomations) while their 5+ armour means they inevitably pick up casualties.
There was a very lengthy debate on finding ways to improve the HBs, which centred around improving their assault capabilities to 3+ and even 2+, but these all failed to make much difference.

The "Assassin rule", essentially a MW attack against infantry only (or even some way of providing a variable attack) was ultimately rejected. However, improving their assault was only part of the solution IMO - and this is one of the main reasons why I felt that the Harlequins needed a boost to their 'survivability' - though it causes other problems with shooting.

Furthermore, by definition the Harlequins are more effective (and arguably harder to hit) than WS, so they definitely need 2x FS attacks, and arguably better resilience as well. Hence the connundrum and why it has taken so long to present acceptable Harlequin stats, and consequently several attempts at a list.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Craftworld Lugganath v1.0 Beta
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:02 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 722
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Interesting to see the discussion around Banshees. Right now I'm actually leaning towards something similar to what was proposed with giving Banshees transport as standard. Perhaps if the Harlequin formations came with Harlequin Venoms as standard, a lot of the issues would go away... They would be a lot more expensive (solving the "auto-include" issue), they would be a lot more nasty in FF (The Venoms I've included have 4+ FF) and they would become real heavy hitters both when engaging out of a Webway as well as when consolidating after combat.

_________________
AC for Traitor Titan Legion and Hive Fleet Dagon


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Craftworld Lugganath v1.1
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:37 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 722
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
List updated to v1.1

_________________
AC for Traitor Titan Legion and Hive Fleet Dagon


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Craftworld Lugganath v1.1
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:32 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue May 17, 2016 6:42 am
Posts: 485
Location: Birchip, Australia
I do like this list.

Army builder is a massive plus giving us something you with. This is probably the reasoning I'm toying with this list compared to the others.

Played dark eldar a bit but not so much eldar. But I feel like this is all more relying on gates and assaults like dark eldar? I'm also guessing high risk high reward keeping the venoms loaded for the harlequins to keep enough distant but keeping the assault threat range for the CC required?

I like you dropped the guardian size. I think 6 and 6 was to good for the points. Also lowering the holo suit saves.

Happy to run some games on TTS.

_________________
I have 4 laptops in this room and cannot play a pixel pushing tabletop simulator on any of them.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Craftworld Lugganath v1.1
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:47 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 722
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Quote:
Army builder is a massive plus giving us something you with. This is probably the reasoning I'm toying with this list compared to the others.


Using an up-to-date army builder file when developing and providing it upon release really adds so much to understanding lists. I think everyone should be doing it, but there's of course a slight learning curve involved.

Quote:
Played dark eldar a bit but not so much eldar. But I feel like this is all more relying on gates and assaults like dark eldar? I'm also guessing high risk high reward keeping the venoms loaded for the harlequins to keep enough distant but keeping the assault threat range for the CC required?


Had not thought about it this way before, but I guess you're right. They can't really do air-assaults like Dark Eldar though, but the triple-retain and Harlequin Webway portal rules probably more than compensates for that.

Quote:
I like you dropped the guardian size. I think 6 and 6 was to good for the points. Also lowering the holo suit saves.


Yeah, it was a bit OP before. I think they're about right now. And Guardians in Venoms is a really fun unit, really forcing you to use the weedy Guardians in an offensive way.

Will be particularly interesting to see how the Harlequins "perform" in playtest.

_________________
AC for Traitor Titan Legion and Hive Fleet Dagon


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Craftworld Lugganath v1.2
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:49 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 722
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
List updated to v1.2

_________________
AC for Traitor Titan Legion and Hive Fleet Dagon


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Craftworld Lugganath v1.21
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:42 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 8:07 pm
Posts: 722
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Realized that the Shadowseer's special ability (now renamed into Dance of Shadows) didn't at all say what I thought it said. Updated the file to correct that.

_________________
AC for Traitor Titan Legion and Hive Fleet Dagon


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

cron

Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net